Live Action Mafia

A game of sneakiness and paranoia
It is currently Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:05 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 84 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:07 am 
Yesterday, Elizabeth Krueger was murdered and Fluffy was lynched. Discuss.


Last edited by Alex on Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:11 am 
Annoucement: Daniel Grazian is murdered at Shaw's checkout at 12:01 AM.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:18 am 
VERY IMPORTANT

I was with dgrazian at 12:01 at Shaw's checkout in the same lane

when I returned to Random and let him in, and asked him who was lynched in black hole stairwell, he said he couldn't talk, and by that time it would have been around 12:04

I did not see anyone besides us there, though maybe there was a randomite who went to Shaw's with him

people should note RIGHT NOW if there was anyone who came back with Shaws bags

however it would have been a very foolish move by someone behind me and dgrazian to commit a murder at Shaw's, if they were aware I was nearby or knew what I looked like

is there any rule or anything which could have caused dgrazian to commit suicide, such as perhaps a conscription or something -- or are mafia even allowed to suicide?

this is not edited, I have to check the rules and get this out so people can notice who "just came back" from outside Random


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:22 am 
what do u mean when u returned to random to let him in? u guys didn't walk back together?


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:36 am 
Quote:
Conscript a Townsperson

Mafia ability usable once
The Mafia meet a player in person to threaten him into working for them. To do so, they tap that player on the shoulder and say, “I'm gonna give you an offer you can't refuse.” That player becomes Mafia, playing the Mafia’s side, and being able to perform murders.

The conscripted player retains all knowledge, items, and he or she had from earlier as well as the benefits of special roles, and may put these to work for the Mafia.

Even though the conscripted player stays alive, conscripting a player counts as the Mafia’s kill for the day. Therefore, it can’t be done on a day when the Mafia already killed someone.) It is not announced, so the player can continue to pretend to a townsperson for the rest of the game, perhaps using others’ trust to the Mafia’s advantage. Having a Medkit does not protect a player from being conscripted.

Townsperson players do not want to be coerced into joining the Mafia, even if they’ll be successful as Mafia.


what happened at Shaws was as follows: I finished checking out and saw dgrazian, said hi, and taunted him that it was 12 if he wanted to kill me, and then ran very quickly back to Random

I returned and when dgrazian said he can't talk, I quickly polled Brian (in black hole in his room) and JB (in bmf playing board games), since they seemed likely to have been able to kill dgrazian as he was leaving.

I then run onto the forum to alert people, since I don't recall if there is something that can allow mafia two kills per day.

Then I learn that not only was dgrazian killed, he was killed at 12:01am immediately, which is the very moment I left him.

there are three possibilities:

[Alex can you please confirm or deny that mafia can kill themselves]

- dgrazian, as a townsperson who was conscripted, was order to immediately kill himself the next day, and I left too quickly to see him do it (or did not see him do it as he came up behind me)

in fact, why was he in Shaw's as they were closing?

- I am mafia, except this doesn't make sense since why would dgrazian kill himself if he was mafia? (I should note that I did not vote for fluffy since I was highly distracted by not-from-MIT friends and parents) does a mafia have any reason to kill themselves? was he under any sort of suspicious whatsoever? the only thing I can think of is that he had a hunch I would return to Random with shaws bags and accompany me back and thus make me look suspicious, but isn't this a terrible terrible strategy for the mafia unless they're about to be lynched anyway? besides, I don't even live in Random, and he knows that -- and though it may have been a reasonable assumption to assume I'd come back with some stuff from Shaw's, it seems like a really really risky and non-sensical thing to do, especially if he isn't sure people will notice us walking back together or that I would even return to Random

- dgrazian was mafia and head reason to kill himself

- there was someone who was near us both at Shaws and killed him, and left. I was looking behind my shoulder as I left Shaws and didn't notice anyone, but this is a real possibility. it seems very unlikely though given the possibility of mafia thinking it would be 'lolsy' to Conscript dgrazian and kill him

I was talking with dgrazian the night before and was tempted to share a bit of important info with him, but wanted to ask people how innocent/guilty they thought he was first. He said he had lots of useful info. If it so happens he shared his thoughts with people in the meeting at 10pm, this may be in an effort to implicate me, but I have no knowledge if he did so, nor (in the case that I am mafia) did an mafia communicate with me between the meeting and when I was rushing out the door right before midnight to use my Shaws coupons for free cookies (whose receipt I have as proof...).

for the record, Brian and JB "seemed clueless" about the murder, with JB saying for a fact there were no murders, and Brian saying he would be surprised if there had been any since 12:05, which makes me slightly more suspicious of Brian since maybe he is part of the Mafia clique and would have been aware of the funny possibility of having dgrazian Conscripted and kill himself

though tactically, it seems a waste to use Conscription.... though if this is the case.... it is the mega-lols and maybe dgrazian was trying to send us a message

[alex: do the rules say that the townsperson who is conscripted may not try to leave hints, e.g. kill their target infront of people?]


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:38 am 
JingJian-JJ wrote:
what do u mean when u returned to random to let him in? u guys didn't walk back together?


I ran ahead just in case he was mafia, and I loitered around the main lounge a while to talk to the ghost of Mika, the night lady, and shawest let me in. maybe there was someone else in the main lounge. after a while I headed upstairs as dgrazian was {either trying to open the door with a key but I let him in since he was carry bags} or {forgot he was carrying a key and was pleading to be let in}


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:50 am 
JRC and Mark are playing dominion and other games with JB in BMF.

JRC said that dgrazian was about to play dominion with them but had to run to Shaws to bake a cake for some reason, likely explaining why he was at Shaws so late so he could get ingredients.

I asked Alex who was there if Mafia are allowed to suicide.

MAFIA ARE ALLOWED TO SUICIDE

JRC said "but it would be an unlikely play" which made me highly suspicious that JRC was mafia.

I then abused lack of knowledge and asked JB and Mark if Mafia can suicide, and they both said "not if there's just one mafia".[/b]


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:51 am 
mats_a wrote:
MAFIA ARE ALLOWED TO SUICIDE

sorry I get ahead of myself:

CORALLARY: The conscripted person can suicide.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:55 am 
mats, there's a fourth possibility: you are mafia, and you killed him.

Granted, if this was the case, it would seem unlikely that you would admit to being around him just before he died. But for the sake of completeness, this had to be said.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:56 am 
I asked Ami if Mafia can suicide, and she dodged the question and said that I should realize she has not had any involvement with this game at all.

This also seems suspicious, since how would she know that I had mentioned that if she didn't carefully read my post on the forums? (Also dodging the question) -- and is consistent with taking the Caan fake ID

She was also very eager to see the forums on my computer when I mentioned something was up, but then realized we can't show screens to each other. Seems inconsistent.

I'm not pointing fingers at any particular person, I'm just mentioning all the suspicious things I can think of so things don't slip under the rug.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:56 am 
Kate O'Connor wrote:
mats, there's a fourth possibility: you are mafia, and you killed him.

Granted, if this was the case, it would seem unlikely that you would admit to being around him just before he died. But for the sake of completeness, this had to be said.


I already mentioned this possibility =p


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:03 am 
hmm, apparently conscription counts as a kill for the day and basically adds them to the mafia team?

so this would basically come down to mafia killing themselves for some reason?

alternatively, someone was tailing dgrazian to Shaws, was literally right behind us, murdered dgrazian the second I left, and neither of us noticed

what was dgrazian baking this cake for? who was he baking with?


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:04 am 
I'm not gonna lie:

I think mafia suicide is really dumb.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:30 am 
(Normally I'd also be suspicious of Kate who might seek to implicate me, especially since I *already* mentioned the possibility I may be mafia ("ooh what an opportunity!"). But I'll cut her a bit of slack since I wrote a heckton of text. =p)

jayarsea wrote:
I'm not gonna lie:

I think mafia suicide is really dumb.


I'm inclined to agree, unless people are suspicious of you anyway. Which we need to know if people were suspicious of Daniel.

Also JRC has pointed out an interaction with the mad scientist:

Quote:
Mad Scientist

Power triggers once
At the end of day seven, the Mad Scientist completes his monstrous creation! He chooses a person not in the game to join the game as his monster, who is a townsperson and can vote, use items, etc. It’s announced who joins the game, but only the monster is told who the Mad Scientist is. The monster can’t be murdered, lynched, or conscripted, but as soon as the Mad Scientist dies, the monster dies too.


The mafia may have conscripted the mad scientist and wanted him to kill himself to prevent the monster from appearing. I guess we'll see soon if the monster appears... I was literally about to find this as I too was looking at interactions with the mad scientist, so I am still suspicious of JRC. There may be other interactions that we haven't discovered yet which may make this make sense. But dgrazian may have done this on his own if he realized the interaction, which may reveal why it happened so early -- perhaps as an indicator to fellow Mafia so they wouldn't accidentally double-kill.

The tail seems less and less likely, and this (or some other interaction) seems more and more likely, since dgrazian is an experienced player. The last game of mafia I played with dgrazian though, he mistakenly pretended that he was the Foo while I was the Foo, but everyone found holes in his story... so I have indeed seen interesting plays by him before.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:45 am 
I've been in my room for the past few hours, playing Super Robot Wars Z. The conversation mats brought up did occur, at about the time he said it did, though the realization that it could caused me to shut and lock my bedroom door immediately afterward. I opened it again for a bit to talk to Kim and Daniel. In the first few days, the Mafia didn't make any kills until very late in the day, presumably to give us less time between information and lynchings as well as increase feelings of paranoia. On the other hand, a 12:01 kill causes us all to feel safe because there's already been a daily kill, and leaves us open to things like remaining vulnerable past when we should. It also gives kills more time to have their lynch targets misdirected.

And mats, while you do bring up the possibility that you are mafia in your starting post, you do not then claim that you killed dgrazian, but assume he suicided despite your being mafia and being there with him, by your own admission, within seconds of his time of death. The simplest answer in this case would be that you are mafia, you killed dgrazian, and by reporting the murder and being so proactive about finding the cause you are aiming to sow confusion and turn the ensuing lynching away from yourself. I say this because this is almost certainly what I would do in your position, were I mafia.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:16 am 
As an alibi, I have been asleep in my room until now. I'm super pissed off at myself too, I wanted to join the mafia festivities in Random... I have no proper alibi besides that, but I am pretty sure Dgrazian knows what I look like and would have been suspicious if I had suddenly shown up at Shaw's without having attended the mafia gathering.

This was a super sudden kill... I also agree with JRC that a mafia suicide is pretty stupid, especially since we for-sure lynched one yesterday. Losing two mafia members in the span of 5 minutes is unreasonable in my eyes, but then again we never know. The fact that it was done literally at 12:01, though, makes me wonder if this was a kill that had been clearly planned quite some time ago yesterday? Who had reason to have a grudge against Dgrazian/who didn't trust him at all?


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:26 am 
Another question: Daniel was a very active player... why didn't he vote yesterday?


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:27 am 
Also, it is worth noting that his trip seemed very extemporaneous... I'm not sure the mafia could have planned this one much in advance...


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:32 am 
@Alex: Manip the Press only changes location, not the time or anything else, right?

Then the only logical explanation is 1) you're mafia and you killed him, or 2) someone else was trailing you guys, waiting for the perfect opportunity. Did Dgrazian mention his Shaw's trip earlier in the evening, or was it literally around midnight when he said he wanted to go? For that matter, why did he wait until closing to go and grab this seemingly important cake?


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:34 am 
mats_a wrote:
I then abused lack of knowledge and asked JB and Mark if Mafia can suicide, and they both said "not if there's just one mafia".[/b]


I didn't say that. I said "I dunno ask Alex," and pointed to him on the other side of the room. Then JRC commented that it was a stupid thing to do.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:52 am 
Mark Velednitsky wrote:
Another question: Daniel was a very active player... why didn't he vote yesterday?


He went to the snowball battle @ pika. He got back after midnight with Kate and other NPs.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:57 am 
VivianLee wrote:
@Alex: Manip the Press only changes location, not the time or anything else, right?

Right. It changes locations and makes investigations say "no".


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:05 am 
JB Parkes wrote:
Mark Velednitsky wrote:
Another question: Daniel was a very active player... why didn't he vote yesterday?

He went to the snowball battle @ pika. He got back after midnight with Kate and other NPs.

Wasn't that on Day 4, though? He voted for Bobby on that day.
I think Mark was talking about Day 5 (still "today" in RST, I believe?)


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:26 am 
Another thing to consider: this kill might have been executed by a hit man. In fact, that makes the people in Random lounge more suspect (the ones that were there when Dgrazien was leaving)... it's very possible that a mafia member in Random heard Dgrazien would be alone and notified his/her fellow mafia members via the mafia den to execute the kill or to hire someone to do it for them... given the conditions, this should probably be given fair consideration.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:50 am 
Mark brings up a valid point... so much hinges on these mafia powers that we're never sure get used or not x__x


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:21 am 
It seems the possibility of a suicide to kill a conscripted mad scientist would be extremely foolish, since a conscripted mad scientist is the most valuable possession the mafia could ever have, and all they need to do to kill the monster is kill the mad scientist later.

Also I feel inclined to reply to people who may be innocent townsfolk so they are not confused, even if they're just shouting dirt at me hoping to get a free lynch:
_____________________

Brian Iglesias wrote:
And mats, while you do bring up the possibility that you are mafia in your starting post, you do not then claim that you killed dgrazian..... The simplest answer in this case would be that you are mafia, you killed dgrazian, and by reporting the murder and being so proactive about finding the cause you are aiming to sow confusion and turn the ensuing lynching away from yourself.


I apologize if that was unclear, it was very strongly implied. Anyway, the simplest answer is *not* that -- why would I kill dgrazian and pretend to be innocent? That is the dumbest thing a mafia could ever do. Because even if that was a bid to gain credibility, it wouldn't work because everyone would be super-suspicious -- *like you are all right now*. Why would I do this if I could have gotten away with it scot free??? No one would have known about the murder. People had no reason to suspect me until today. The only reason I actually am actually braindumping the townspeople is because I actually play with a suicidal bent and don't really care if I die, and furthermore -- *as I mentioned hours ago* in my original post -- I needed to alert players asap incase they noticed anything suspicious like others baking cookies with Daniel or coming back into the dorm via either entrance.

Also would I be suggesting dumb things and talking so much? The alternatives tomorrow will be "guy who is suspicious and talked a lot" and "no lynch", and people as a rule don't want to vote no-lynch, this looks *really bad* for me. Talking more right now just makes people think I'm even more of a reasonable vote! The mafia are sitting back and chuckling "haha we get a free lynch today we don't have to worry" the more I say! I may play with some meta, but not THAT much meta.

Actually I won't deny this, this is totally something I would do if I were a novice mafia, and I am probably ridiculous enough to think of it -- but after past experience and drawing obscene suspicion and getting killed early on for these sorts of things (if you've ever played mafia with me before) has taught me that this kind of stuff will just get me killed early, LIKE IT IS GETTING ME KILLED NOW. Also it would not be *fair* to the other mafia. I have no desire to screw my mafia metagame, and furthermore people know me for someone who is fair in the metagame. o_O Given that Nathan was mafia and we lynched him, I would feel it is my duty to try to succeed, as I love playing the underdog and the players deserve a fair game.

Though I guess I am fine with people voting to kill me anyway, since then I feel good if either townspeople or mafia win. =p I've already dropped enough clues to make the game interesting and winnable.

JB Parkes wrote:
mats_a wrote:
I then abused lack of knowledge and asked JB and Mark if Mafia can suicide, and they both said "not if there's just one mafia".[/b]


I didn't say that. I said "I dunno ask Alex," and pointed to him on the other side of the room. Then JRC commented that it was a stupid thing to do.


I apologize, you did say something different but I may have incorrectly assumed it was the same as what Mark said since oh-god-what-just-happened. PLEASE NOTE that I was unaware of the full mechanics behind Conscription until I read them at 1:30, so what I originally suggested of a regular "mafia suicide" (which I have also said would be dumb), should not be taken heavily -- admittedly it was JRC's idea.

JB Parkes wrote:
Mark Velednitsky wrote:
Another question: Daniel was a very active player... why didn't he vote yesterday?


He went to the snowball battle @ pika. He got back after midnight with Kate and other NPs.


Daniel seems like the kind of player who would put in his vote early? Alex: is it possible to tell the time a vote was put in? Maybe the Mafia were suspicious he was going to accuse them, so had to kill him early? Eh... there seem to be better opportunities... I'm not sure what to make of this. Yesterday was also a fairly non-fun day and I wouldn't look too much into folks not voting for forgone conclusions.

Mark Velednitsky wrote:
Another thing to consider: this kill might have been executed by a hit man. In fact, that makes the people in Random lounge more suspect (the ones that were there when Dgrazien was leaving)... it's very possible that a mafia member in Random heard Dgrazien would be alone and notified his/her fellow mafia members via the mafia den to execute the kill or to hire someone to do it for them... given the conditions, this should probably be given fair consideration.


I hear Daniel was about to play a game of dominion with JRC and Vinoth(dead) then vanished saying he had to go to Star, and JRC could have texted someone to stalk him, which is why I am slightly suspicious of him. I'm not even sure if there was someone else in that game... because people often play it with 3 players but I only saw 2 people there... I'm not sure if there was a deck where a 3rd person was sitting at, I should have checked. But in fairness to him, he would have no idea that Daniel would have finished after 12pm (unless Daniel bolted out).

Was anyone besides JRC and Vinoth playing Dominion?

Given that I can no longer think of reasons for Daniel to kill himself, I think it's a decent possibility that there was a stalker neither of us noticed. Given that Daniel reported it as 12:01, this makes things even more likely (explaining why we didn't notice anyone behind us, and the late hour). In retrospect, I should have texted someone saying I'm walking back with dgrazian, but I was not expecting anyone else around (maybe they noticed me and hung low).

Maybe someone went to Star with Daniel who I wasn't aware of, but this seems unlikely -- or maybe someone did and they didn't come back with him, but it seems he left in a rush.

________________________________________

I am slightly annoyed in-character that everyone proceeded to suspect me without looking for anyone returning from Star, thereby making the suspicion I've been laying on myself completely ridiculous.

I should also point out that Jason Chiu also lives nearby -- I would like to know if Jason would recognize dgrazian if he stumbled to him at Star. But this is seem even more of a stretch.

IMPORTANT STUFF:
- I no longer consider a mafia suicide or mad scientist scenario to be a major possibility, unless Daniel was under suspicion.
- At the time I posted this, I considered suicide a major possibility, but it doesn't make sense in the rules -- can anyone think of a valid complicated rules or political reason a suicide would make sense? I guess a stalker is a lot more likely, or Hitman as someone suggests.
- If people lynch me, please pay attention to who votes so my death is not for naught, thanks. Also please don't lynch me without reading everything I've said, thanks.


Why didn't the mafia kill anyone on day 4? It seems likely that Conscription may have been used, since it counts as your kill for the day, or they ran into the Ironheart. Except I think the Ironheart would have known who had tried to kill him. I now feel Conscription is unrelated to any of this, but who knows.

If Daniel was going for a proper mafia suicide, he would have texted someone saying "walking back with Mats, if he someone killed me it was him" before killing himself, making the stalker even more likely. (Darnit I can't notice anything. -_-) Though as I said, Daniel did once, in another game, make a misplay of doing something very complicated. That was the main reason I announced so quickly to everyone, as I suspected it was a suicide. But in retrospect if he really wanted to put the blame on me, he would have texted someone, not shot himself until he saw me, and hung around until someone asked anything about mafia.

Also why would I attempt to kill dgrazian at 12:01 impromptu-ly without discussing with mafia? Maybe if he puts his vote in early or was suspecting me, but that seems a bit drastic. And he rushed out so fast. And since he's in Random, the mafia would have had tons of opportunity to kill him.

In fact, I have given Daniel no reason not to trust me, since I almost revealed an important piece of information to him yesterday, but thought better of it and wanted to ask people if he was trustworthy. In retrospect, that was fairly suspicious of being innocent.

The most likely scenario I thought of at the time, and the reason I'm revealing this all, is that Daniel had *some reason* to kill himself and was trying to implicate me by walking back with me, and this was a complicated play that failed because I ran away in case he was mafia and he shot himself before I escaped. In retrospect that was a horrible reason to reveal this all... wow what was I thinking... But anyway, the stalker seems more likely, and the folks who were playing boardgames (Mark, JB, Nathan, another, maybe jordango -- plus the folks who were playing Dominion such as Vinoth and JRC -- should say if anyone else was playing dominion)

Random other bits of info:
The store had closed and we were practically the last people to leave. It is possible that he was lynched slightly before then, in which case who knows, but I remember looking at my watch and the time said 12:00 and by the time I made it to the counter I think it was 12:01-12:02. The person has just announced "Star Market is now closed. Please come up to the counter if you have anything" and I was in line within about 20sec.

Wow, this was terrible ranty, sorry, my batteries are about to die and I felt I had to reply to accusations.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:43 am 
Quote:
I should also point out that Jason Chiu also lives nearby -- I would like to know if Jason would recognize dgrazian if he stumbled to him at Star.

Jason has played Mafia with Dgrazian multiple times both this year and last, so I think both parties would recognize the other.

More thoughts later, I need sleep.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:49 am 
VivianLee wrote:
Quote:
I should also point out that Jason Chiu also lives nearby -- I would like to know if Jason would recognize dgrazian if he stumbled to him at Star.

Jason has played Mafia with Dgrazian multiple times both this year and last, so I think both parties would recognize the other.

More thoughts later, I need sleep.


He also seemed frustrated and went to sleep immediately; maybe it was the case that the person would have killed him and not recognized me. But at this point I'm grasping at straws. Tailing seems to be a possibility that is consistent.

JB also came around and said he wanted to talk when less sleepy, as he claimed to be suspicious of me. Unless JB is a 1-level-meta player (which he can certainly pull off), this may be weak evidence that he is not mafia.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:42 am 
Alex, Vinoth, and I played dominion. JB, Marc, and Fluffy were also going to play, but we decided 6 person dominion was no fun.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:43 am 
Where did Kate O' Connor go?


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 84 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group