Live Action Mafia

Andres Perez
Hey spies.
I'm going to bed soon.I figured I'd make this gchat before I go to bed though.
Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:35 AM
Lily Chen
Cool. Thanks!
This doesn't get shared publicly on G+ right?
Andres Perez
I doubt it
Lily Chen
Do we want to do anything about the Russian cryptography thing
Also what items does everyone haveI didn't get one
Andres Perez
We could try to populate the post with fake messages
Lily Chen
The thing I can't understand is
Why ask for messages to be posted thereInstead of just PM'd?Maybe I'm missing something here, but that seems strictly betterOr maybe they have weird goals
Andres Perez
I assume their goals are symmetric to ours
Lily Chen
Well I guess the intended recipient is one of us four, so maybe we shouldn't discuss this here
Andres Perez
I think fragmenting our communication is a bad idea.
If we all communicate openly with each other, as long as the double agent reveals information about us we'll figure out who they are.
Lily Chen
Will we? I mean, I assume by now that the double agent is in contact with the Russians
Andres Perez
I was thinking last night, maybe that's not so bad.
It probably means our double agent knows who we are
Lily Chen
Err that's a given. It probably means the Russians know who we are, you mean?
I think that would be a huge advantage for them
Andres Perez
I guess what I'm trying to say is that we'll know if they know who we are, the second our double agent tries to contact us.
And presumably they will contact one of us.
Lily Chen
Ah, ok. Well we should probably give them a means to do that anonymously
Andres Perez
They could create a new account right?
Lily Chen
Yeah, I guess
I kind of want to make a similar anonymous post explicitly encouraging our double agent to get in touch with us
Andres Perez
I have an idea.
I'm trying to come up with creative ways of communicating secretly.We create them an accountand we make a post saying that the password to that account has something to do with our usernames.Make it infeasible for anybody else to login. And make it hard, but doable, for our double agent.
Lily Chen
Hm, interesting. I think this is also vulnerable to the russian double agent though
Like they already know who we are
Andres Perez
that's a good point.
Is there anything we could do that wouldn't be vulnerable to the double agent though?
Lily Chen
Yeah, probably not. :/
Ok so I'm going to go ahead and make an anonymous account and see if anyone gets in touch
Sammy Luo
Hmm this is interesting
The Russians stole my idea Um, I will just say that I got a positive psychological read on JingyiWhich means I'd much rather she be in charge of communications than a randomly selected one of the other two of you
Lily Chen
What do you mean by positive psychological read? Anything specific?
Sammy Luo
Nothing too specific, but she came to talk to me about strategy last night and seemed more open than she tends to be when she's a traitor type
But I could be wrong
Lily Chen
Eh
Andres Perez
Is she a first time player?
Lily Chen
I made an anonymous account already and I'm waiting on god's approval to post in town square
Sammy Luo
No, but she's relatively new
Andres Perez
I trust psych reads only on new players
Sammy Luo
Hmm
Lily Chen
I don't really trust psych reads unless it's dgrazian

Sammy Luo
I only trust my psych reads on Jakob
regardless, given that Lily took the initiative to make the account, I think I would prefer to have a randomly selected one of us get the account and change its password, etc.
Lily Chen
Eh, I disagree, but that's pretty reasonable logic
Do you guys think we should share information about roles/items?It would be useful to know how many killing abilities we have
Sammy Luo
um... I'd rather be cautious for now, I think
but this is not a firm opinion
Lily Chen
So, this double agent problem isn't going to go away
Andres Perez
Is there anything we can really do if we don't share?
Sammy could you follow through with your idea anyway
Lily Chen
I don't think there's much they can do to us with that knowledge
As long as we don't share specifics
Andres Perez
About contacting our double
Sammy Luo
Er, well, now that the Russians have taken the initiative...
And Lily's made an account already
Lily Chen
I could hand it over once I get it set up
AOK needs to approve it to post in the town square
Sammy Luo
OK, seems reasonable
Lily Chen
I guess I'm the one pushing to share role/item information so I'll just go ahead and say
My role allows me to make one kill, if a certain person dies beforehand, and I would die at the end of the next dayAnd I didn't get an item
Sammy Luo
interesting
Jingyi and I know each other's roles to first order approximation
Lily Chen
Can you share some general information?
Like what type of abilities the roles have
Sammy Luo
Hmm
Lily Chen
I'm also just curious to get a feel for the bounds of what's possible/likely in this game
Andres Perez
I'll give you general information about my role
Sammy Luo
sorry, my townie instincts make me feel weird telling things to a group of 3 people with at least 1 mafia
Lily Chen
Haha
I don't think we care much about the mafia though?
Andres Perez
I think he meant 3 spies and one double
Lily Chen
Sure
Sammy Luo
Yeah, that's what I meant. I'll say some things though after Andres goes.
goes = says what he was going to reveal
Lily Chen
I don't think they can actually hurt us much with general information
as long as we don't give specificsLike, I'm not going to tell you guys who needs to die for my role to activate
Andres Perez
I can figure out partial information about dead people
Lily Chen
Cool
Is there a cost to you?
Andres Perez
I don't get harmed by any means doing so
Lily Chen
Seems like that's not a role that could present a weakness for us?
Seems fine to share then.
Sammy Luo
I mean, maybe we want to surprise the Russians with what it can do
though probably not since they'll know to be careful now anywayJingyi and I both have protective-ish roles
Andres Perez
Guys
I'm in intro to acting with JacobIn case I die
Sammy Luo
*Jakob
Lily Chen
Ok
Andres Perez
Let's also use this chat to warn each other when we see other players
Lily Chen
So are you and Jingyi's roles symmetric with each other, or different?
Sammy Luo
different
Andres Perez
Since we can mostly trust each other
Lily Chen
Do they allow you to make kills under certain circumstances?
Sammy Luo
One of them allows us to cause one death under very specific circumstances
Lily Chen
I don't think we really care who the mafia is though. We only care if one of us gets killed by a Russian
Sammy Luo
I mean, we don't want to get killed by mafia either
Lily Chen
Sure, but if one of us gets killed by mafia, there's not much we can do about it with the information of who the killer is
Do either of your roles present a possible weakness for us?Like do you die under certain circumstances triggered by your role?
Sammy Luo
Nope
Lily Chen
Great to hear
Sammy Luo
Oh, one of us also has a pseudo-conscriptive ability, meaning we can make someone need to either make sure our goal is completed, or kill us all (without telling them what our goal is or who the rest of us are)
Lily Chen
Wat.
That sounds like a raw deal for that person lol
Sammy Luo
in particular, this is useless against a Russian because they still need to complete their own goal to win
Lily Chen
Yup
Sammy Luo
so they would just end up trying to kill us all
Lily Chen
So it doesn't overwrite their own goals?
Sammy Luo
nope
Lily Chen
What would it do against a double agent?
Sammy Luo
I don't think so
um, probably the same
Lily Chen
I suppose the double agent's goals are the same as their actual side
Sammy Luo
I think so
but I don't know, are they?
Lily Chen

Well I wouldn't know
So, protective roles
Can you protect us?
Does it work that way?
And are your items useful?
Kind of sad that I didn't get one, but curious as to how useful they actually are
Sammy Luo
no, self-protective roles
Lily Chen
I see
Sammy Luo
I think that's all we need to share about the protection for now
Lily Chen
Ok
Andres Perez
Should I share my item?
BrbClass
Sammy Luo
Um
Hmm

(From this morning)

Day up to 4:29 PM:

Lily Chen
The account is set up
Should I post publicly asking for information to be PM'd?
Sammy Luo
um
we should decide who to take charge of the account first to avoid leaking info
Lily Chen
I don't think there's much to leak?
Anything the chinese double agent knows, the russians already know
Sammy Luo
no, for example they don't know who the Chinese double agent is
Lily Chen
presumably
Yeah, well they should communicate in a way that doesn't reveal their identity
Sammy Luo
true
there's always the chance that the Russian communication didn't actually work out (for example, if one of us faked the Russian post - in which case of course don't say so here), in which case we would potentially be giving the Russian double info by letting them access the account
Lily Chen
Sharing accounts isn't allowed
Sammy Luo
oh shoot
this is true
Lily Chen
Ah, ok, maybe that's why the russians did the public key crypto thing
instead of just PMsthat makes sense
Sammy Luo
oh, so they can all share the private key?
Lily Chen
Presumably
Genius...
Sammy Luo
ok, I see
too smart
Lily Chen
Wow ok
HmThis gives me several guesses as to who's on the Russian team...
Sammy Luo
who?
Lily Chen
Isaac
comes to mindlemme check player listDylanhen possibly?Idk, maybe completely off base here
Sammy Luo
Jakob maybe
Lily Chen
but I think this requires a certain amount of familiarity and comfort with cryptography
to think of
Sammy Luo
Jakob is a security person
Lily Chen
Ok
Maybe
Sammy Luo
but he also went to bed early last night for legitimate reasons
Lily Chen
idk, maybe we should also do the same thing so that no one of us can hijack communications?

Sammy Luo
maybe
so it's a tradeoff between a 3/4 chance of complete safety and a guarantee of unidirectional safety
Lily Chen
Explain?
Sammy Luo
If we pick one of us randomly and let them do all the communications, we have a 3/4 chance of them being good and thus trustable with everything
if we do a crypto thing, we all get all the info but so does the spy
Lily Chen
I think the latter is preferable
Sammy Luo
in this case I tend to agree with you that the chance the spy gets useful info out of this is small
yeahOKwe should do that
Lily Chen
Ok, let me set this up
I will spell it out so that our double agent knows not to reveal anything that would compromise themselves
Sammy Luo
yeah
Lily Chen
Gotta figure out this cryptography thing I guess
the Russians helpfully posted a link to a tutorial
Sammy Luo

Andres Perez
Make sure not use your actual email
Lily Chen
Yeah lol
Andres Perez
Cool
Alright back to class
Sammy Luo
oops I should
do work
Thursday, November 5, 2015 2:53 PM
Andres Perez
大家会说中文吗？
Lily Chen
Lol. Yes. Can't type it conveniently on my phone though
Andres Perez
If you know pinyin and have a droid, you can add it as a second language input.
But besides being cool and in character, there isn't any paint. but till it's cool
Lily Chen
So the natural equilibrium, assuming both sides can get communication working, is that both sides know who the other spies are, doesn't know which one is their own agent, and both sides know that they both know
Seems to me like the challenge will be to establish contact with our double agent early to get a head start on killing off the other side before they find out who we areAnd figure out which one is our own double agent so we know which one of them to keep aliveIt seems like neither side has made contact with their double agent yet at this pointMaking alliances with mafia and/or manipulating them into killing people for us may be the way to go
Andres Perez
Well that's very well feasible, since one of us has pseude-conscripting abilities.
Lily Chen
Right
So we should try to conscript a mafiaOr someone who can killDo we have useful items we can barter with?
Andres Perez
what do you mean by barter?
Lily Chen
trade the mafia in exchange for a hit on someone
Oh shit, looks like the russians just made contact with their double agentone of you guys
Andres Perez
this is great because mafia wouldn't have a reason to kill us
until they don't find us useful anymore
Lily Chen
So, items? Sorry if I'm seeming sketchy because I'm pushing for us to share more info with each other
I think taking stock of what our assets are is a good thing, as long as we're careful not to share anything specific that could allow the Russians to gain an advantage over us
Andres Perez
but we still want to be able to surprise the russians right?
also, if either one of us created that alias as a fake double agent, we shouldn't share that with the rest of the group.
Lily Chen
Clearly not.
And lol, are you assuming it couldn't have been Jingyi or Sammy?
Andres Perez
that's not what I'm assuming.
I was directing that to the group as a whole.
Lily Chen
Ok.
Seems like there's no way to know anything about anyone, reallyAnyone could plausibly pretend to be anyone at allI think the only thing that can be used to judge the validity of a role/alignment claim is knowledge about the game setup or meta information that outsiders wouldn't know

Gah line breaks not working. Also I have to manually undo the gmail smileys. Anyone know a better way to paste things from gchat?

Day up to 8:42 PM:

Sammy Luo
Andres, do you know how to do PGP?
Andres Perez
I took 6.857 last semester, so I know the theory behind it.
I've only used keybase to communicate with friends though, and that's always been mildly annoying.
Sammy Luo
hmm
Lily Chen
Why do you ask?
Sammy Luo
Trying to get a read on you two, because upon more interaction with Jingyi I still find myself trusting her nontrivially more than average
but perhaps reading is more effective in person
Lily Chen
Maybe we should meet in person?
I think we should meet to talk about items and roles, at the very leastIt's harder for the double agent to pass on information if it's communicated in person
Sammy Luo
Yes
I agree
Lily Chen
Are y'all free this afternoon? I'm in lab and could meet in building 18 or at EC
Jingyi Zhao
I may be in EC 7-8
Andres Perez
let's meet somewhere nobody can see us.
Lily Chen
I'm not free after 6
Andres Perez
unless one of us decides to run for a position, and passes around petitions
Lily Chen
We should consider doing that as well?
Sammy Luo
petitions are only doable after day 1 start I thought
as are item transfers
Lily Chen
Ah ok, nevermind then
Man, this anonymous communication thing is hilariousdid you see the "sukhovni" post? lolol
Sammy Luo
I feel like meeting on day 1 makes more sense in case we have things we don't want the double agent to spoil beforehand
yes, this must be hilarious for the clueless townies to watch
Andres Perez
what are the chances that there are japanese spies as well?
Lily Chen
I don't think there are.
The spy game seems like it's just us and the Russians, because it seems to be symmetricbut I wouldn't rule out the possibility of orthogonal pairs of spy factionsI think aok would have made different groups with different types of goals instead of repeating the same type of thing though
Sammy Luo
Can all of you state your current locations?
I am in my room
Lily Chen
I'm in building 18
It's like 2 minutes away from EC
Andres Perez
I'm in my room
I'm about to change locations though
Sammy Luo
hmm
did either of you have class 3-4?
Jingyi Zhao
me
Lily Chen
I had class at 2
Andres Perez
same
Sammy Luo
I'm just trying to mark the timing of the encrypted messages from the russian double agent
Lily Chen
Good plan
Not sure it'll be super helpful but it's a good thing to do in any caseassuming the person is being careful/paranoid enoughCan you three confirm that you each got an item?I didn't get oneSo assuming aok is telling the truth, which I think we can assume, you all should have gotten one
Sammy Luo
Jingyi and I did get items
Lily Chen
How much information have you two shared with each other? o.O
Sammy Luo
enough for me to trust her a rather large amount
...where rather large may be an exaggeration
Lily Chen
Why do you trust her? Just a psychological read, or is there other reasoning?
Sammy Luo
there is reasoning, but I'd rather not reveal most of it right now
whooo we got a responseit may or may not be fake
Lily Chen
Oh wow, they actually sent names
niiiiice
Sammy Luo

wow
Lily Chen
This sounds legit
there are 4 nameswhich makes sense given our understanding of the game setup
Sammy Luo
yes
Lily Chen
I believe this is legit
Sammy Luo
what are the names?
Lily Chen
Oh, I assumed you decrypted it yourself too
Sammy Luo
or would you rather not share?
oh I was being lazy
Lily Chen
The message says:
ajliu_
jessk_
ksedlar_
Lucy_
We’re meeting today in the Assassin’s Guild Office 6:15-7
Sammy Luo
I haven't figured out how
hmmwellAndres, can you check this decryption?
Lily Chen
lol, I'd be stupid to be trying to lie about this
You can all easily verify
Sammy Luo
I know
Andres Perez
okay, I'll check the decryption. Hold on.
jessk is interesting though. I live near her, so I'll try to keep an eye on her.
Lily Chen
Do you know anything about ajliu?
Andres Perez
she doesn't seem to be behaving differently as far as I can tell.
where do they live?
Lily Chen
Well it's early in the game and most people probably haven't done much yet
I think somewhere in EC?This is her second game, I think
Jingyi Zhao
ajliu lives on floor pi
ksedlar lives in random
Lily Chen
Do you know ajliu well?
I'll see if I can get a read off of ksedlar. She's usually pretty readable when she's mafia, and I think she should be relatively readable as a spy as well
Jingyi Zhao
yes I do
but I don't read people's minds
Lily Chen
Haha, fair enough
Sammy Luo
I might read people's minds
Andres, did you check the decryption yet?Also what is this new message?
Lily Chen
I need to go now but I can post the decryption later
It doesn't seem as legit as the previou sone
Sammy Luo
is it a completely disjoint set of people?
Lily Chen
They didn't offer up names
It reads to me like the Russians trying to impersonate the Chinese double agentI also have meta reasons to believe ksedlar is a spy, so I trust the previous correspondent a lot
Sammy Luo
Ajliu is in a phone interview in her room
But maybe the others are meeting
Lily Chen
I'd believe it
Andres Perez
I'm working on decrypting the first message. Sorry, I'm a bit hosed with my bio pset. I'm not sure how much more I can spend on mafia
Lily Chen
If one of you wants to be stealthy and check if the people they named are actually having a meeting
Just be careful
Andres Perez
wait what's going on?
Lily Chen
Scroll up to see what the first encrypted message said
They named four people and said that they would be having a meeting tonightAround now in factThe second message was someone saying not to trust the first person
Sammy Luo
which of those 4 people do you think would have known to start the pgp stuff, and given the dark net tutorial link?
Also, is there anytime tomorrow we can all meet? Preferably after 6pm so that Jakob is at macbeth.Let's decide when but not where, so that we can't get ambushed as easily
Andres Perez
I was actually planning to go to macbeth :~
Sammy Luo
ah that's fine
maybe after that, or sometime after day end tonight?Also, macbeth starts at 8 so perhaps sometime before then could work(Jakob is called at 6)
Andres Perez
oh, then that's fine.
I'm pretty sure I'm not busy at that time.
Sammy Luo
Once qwertyuiop responds with a public key we should ask them to confirm who actually went to the meeting, and at what times, to make sure they're telling the truth
where by "they" I suppose I mean "her"
Andres Perez
has anybody else been able to decrypt the message?
I'm having trouble.
Sammy Luo
hmm
Andres Perez
I'm pretty sure the way things work with private keys, is that you need a passphrase to use them.
lily did you setup the private key with a password?
Lily Chen
Oh sorry
If it's asking for oneIt's liveactionmafia2015
Andres Perez
okay. it works.
I read the same message you showed us from qwertyuiophave the rest of you been able to decrypt messages as well?
Sammy Luo
I haven't set things up yet
I was wondering if you had already set things up
Andres Perez
yeah, I managed to set things up. I can show you how to at our meeting.
Lily Chen
Wait when are we meeting?
Andres Perez
it'd be useful for all of us to know how to decrypt messages on the fly
tomorrow?
Sammy Luo
We were thinking sometime tomorrow, not sure when
I said I preferred after 6, Andres prefers before 8Question I asked earlier: which of those 4 people (Lucy, etc.) do you think would have known to start the pgp stuff, and given the dark net tutorial link?
Lily Chen
Ajliu?
Andres Perez
I don't know lucy that well.
Lily Chen
Maybe Lucy?
I think not katie
Sammy Luo
I made Jakob go through the list of players and guess which ones would know how to do PGP, and he gave vaguely negative answers for ajliu and probably most of the others
Andres Perez
jessk is pretty good at crypto.
she knew about public key crypto before coming to MIT.
Lily Chen
Like also Google is a thing
Andres Perez
not to mention the fact that she's done projects in crypto.
Sammy Luo
I mean, I feel like to think of doing crypto that quickly suggests a level of familiarity beforehand
In any case I suppose this doesn't matter too much, it's just to see how likely it is that the list of 4 people is legit.What meeting times work well for the rest of you?
Lily Chen
Tomorrow is not great for me...
I can do 10 am
Sammy Luo
hmm...
I have class at 10
Lily Chen
How about 11?
My phone is about to dieI'll be back around 9 pm
Sammy Luo
OK
11 would work for me
Andres Perez
11 might work for me.
Lily Chen
4 pm might also work for me
Sammy Luo
I'd prefer 11 to 4 (for Jakob reasons)
Jingyi Zhao
not sure about 11, but 11:15 definitely works
Sammy Luo
As mentioned before, let's not set a meeting place until right before, to avoid getting ambushed
Sammy Luo
Decryption please?
oops no one's herenvm I found a website to do itit gives the same player list. Lily, did you ask them for the player list?Both give the same names, which is interestingthough it's possible they're both fakeand just confirming each otherbut then I'd expect the real one to show up"Yes. We are Lucy, jessk, ksedlar, and ajliu. We have anonymously exchanged roles and item information with one anotherr, as well as a few suspicions on wwho people are. None of us claim to be either of the Russians in FSBezopasnosti's threadd. Do you want me to tell you what our roles and items are?""None of us claim to be either of the Russians in FSBezopasnosti's thread" - this makes no sense. Why would they just let a fake Russian do things without retaliating?I'm still more inclined to believe the first oneI'm not sure thoughOf course, I also can't tell if Lily snuck "reply back saying you're [these 4]" into the messageLily, can you paste the unencrypted message you sent them so we can verify that it encrypts to what you potsed?*posted