Live Action Mafia

I want to lynch kmath by default on day 2.

Shike (who shoveled as mafia, FYI) would have had ample opportunities to conscript kmath. Also she was somewhat sketchily pushing to lynch Asya instead of shike.

++ very hard pushing for asya rather than Shi-ke though, to be fair, she 180ed at the end.

Note that kmath is the one who made this shoveling claim, so you can't really trust it if you want to use it as an argument not to trust her.

Yeah, it's pretty reasonable to want to lynch me. I do admit that I wanted Asya investigated and maybe lynched depending on the results of that. I was a bit too eager to believe Shi-Ke's alibi, partly because of psychological reads but mostly because we're really close and I wanted to trust him. I also changed my mind toward the end of the day/my conversation with Lily and Josh when I noticed that Shi-Ke showed up on Katie's paranoia text list twice, so it was unlikely that he was only on there when signing Sammy's petition.

Er, sorry, it technically could argue against trusting her (by contradiction), but I was trying to say that if you distrust kmath, consider the possibility that shike was a rogue. Though this would remove the "shike could've easily conscripted kmath" factor.

Lily, any reason you think shike would've decided to conscript kmath in particular?

Yes but it would be very risky to lie about a shovel result because it's easily verified. And if Shike had shoveled as innocent, a second shovel holder very likely would have double checked it.

Still think kmath is sketchy. Still think we should lynch her (unless something more compelling comes up).

I don't think we should decide anything until at least a couple people investigate.

kmath has poked me and mads (the two people who've called investigator proxies) to investigate people in regards to the Day 2 murder. mads and I are both a bit sketched out by this, even though the investigation suggestions were fairly reasonable / obvious ones.

Dunno if this sways anyone else on the lynch vote.

Who did she suggest as investigation targets?

Wait, that seems like something that'd be better not to reveal, in case frames or mtps are waiting to be used.

Investigators should use their own judgment in choosing investigation targets.

Trying to secretly influence investigations is pretty sketchy, imo, and suggests that frame a townsperson has already been used.

How is poking investigators sketchy? I know I'm the default lynch so I have extra incentive to get people to try to find an actual mafia. Feel free to investigate me, but it's not going to give you any useful information and will waste an investigation given that unless someone turns up guilty, I'm probably going to get lynched anyway.

I suggested jamb and lukesci, given that jamb walked into random right after the kill and lukesci was hanging around random even though he usually doesn't spend time here.

I think it unlikely that lukesci went over to Random just to make a kill. People had a lot more scheduled events today (read more/better chances for mafia to kill ppl) so sending a mafia to stake out a place for a possible kill seems less worth it.

Suggesting investigations to the mayor would be reasonable, since mayoral investigations can't be filmed by manipulate the press. Suggesting investigations to investigators, and doing so privately, is sketchy.

And you seem to be pretty confident that someone will turn up guilty, given your earlier post saying we should wait for investigation results before deciding on a lynch.

Given that you're already sketchy for pushing to lynch Asya last night, this puts you at the top of my sketch list.

Maybe not. I just thought it was weird for him to be here, and arkadiy was probably a kill of convenience given that he was killed on his way into/out of Random. It could have easily been anybody in Random, but these are the two people I suspected most and I figured I might as well share my suspicions with investigators before I get lynched. I agree that maybe I shouldn't have PMed them, but I've been trying to contact Josh all day, and in fact asked him to investigate Luke, but he hasn't responded at all.

I agree with the first statement, of course, but I don't think PMing proxies with investigation suggestions is a bad idea. In fact, I think it's arguably a better strategy for town than openly posting investigation ideas (in some situations), since with high probability you will reach a non-mafia, and so mafia will not know to frame the person in question before they are investigated.

Case in point: Spring 2015, I proxied for ksedlar and picked fmajluf7 as my double proxy, having good reason to think that fmajluf7 was likely the murderer in the first kill. I thought about suggesting that ksedlar investigate fmajluf7 but hesitated until it was too late (she got killed). Then I posted the suggestion publicly, and the result was that mafia investigated fmajluf7, recruited her (as a serial killer), and posted (through a proxy) a fake innocent result. (Though, granted, this set off a whole chain of vaguely town-favoring drama for that game.)

Also, since mafia only gets one use of frame this game, it seems that intentionally hitting the suspected frame would not be a bad thing. In any case, I agree with the two suggestions as people that would be good to investigate, but I echo that investigators should decide on their own.

I don't think mtp is relevant in this case, and frames could still troll a mayor. I don't see why giving suggestions is bad, especially if it's to players who know that they're just suggestions and can think for themselves.

In case it's not obvious lukesci seems like a worthwhile lynch.

I think it's likely that Luke was framed.

My priors for Luke being framed have gone down after some discussion, with the possibility that he's a serial killer making for most of the difference.

I believe some mechanism for Luke revealing has been set in place; he has claimed not to have a provably innocent role. So I advocate for going ahead and lynching him today unless something unexpected happens, and dealing with the remaining issues later.

I'm back to thinking maybe lynch kmath now? Seeing as lukesci is no longer an option and I'm still moderately sketched by kmath.

I wouldn't vote to lynch Kmath, late game lynches are not a great idea and this seems like an attempt to get an extra kill via lynching. If we want to lynch her we can always do so later. I vote for no execute.

Regardless we should try to come to a consensus so that we can predict the lynch results. We want to decide early enough so that kmath can claim if needed. Let's say 10:50?

NO LYNCH, NO LYNCH, NO LYNCH, ANY OBJECTIONS SPEAK NOW!

if new data comes to light, then we can update on it, in the meantime no lynch.

Agreed, no lynch.

I second no lynching

I'm no lynching because there's not enough time for objections to be settled.

Yeah, I'm no lynching because lukesci's death location may have been manipulated, which points to sneaky mafia shenanigans.

I'm still voting for kmath. This whole thing is sketchy, and seems perfectly timed to distract everyone from what would have been a default lynch of kmath. I still think kmath is sketchy as hell and we should tase her at the very least.

..., we were default lynching lukesci... who had a positive investigation.