Live Action Mafia

This was my suspicion, and it has now been proven true, barring plant evidence.

The kill was most likely an mtp (mafia, what are you doing???), so it probably doesn't warrant non-mayor investigations.

There was a mini discussion of me, Josh Frisch, jamb and kmath about what happened. As I testified earlier, I saw lukesci around the time in Random Hall, walking through Destiny Kitchen while I was working on MASLAB. Since he was at Random Hall around the time of death, it may not actually have been a MTP

Perhaps a suicide to increase confusion?

SK can't commit suicide after killing someone the same day :/

But OK, if he was in random, it could've been not an MTP.

Wait, did I miss something? Did someone shovel him?

Yeah, I should've said that. I shoveled him. I got the shovel from Josh earlier.

And no, I don't understand what happened any more than anyone else seems to. ltchin, how sure are you about the timing of seeing lukesci in Random? If you're sure enough, it seems to indicate that someone in random is either mafia or a vigilante refusing to proxy-reveal for some reason...

I am very sure about the timing being correct, although I can not give you an exact timestamp. I thought it was very weird to see lukesci walk through Destiny and was on guard to see him walk through. I was not sure if he was dead or not at the time I saw him.

If luke went to Random at all after 22, it would have been very close to the correct time, so I don't think MtP was used.

Gods, can you say more precisely where the kill occurred?

Vigilante, please still announce through a proxy if you made the kill.

Possible scenario: Mafia figure out that Luke must have killed arkadiyf (easy for them to see, if they know that arkadiy wasn't a mafia kill), figure that he's going to get lynched anyway, so might as well just set a trap on him as serial killer and kill him.

Possible benefits to trap-killing a serial killer who's about to get lynched:
1) sow confusion
2) make it easier for Don powers to regenerate
3) if kmath is mafia, allow her to convince people not to lynch her based on the reasoning that Luke's death makes her look innocent

(I take it she's been arguing vigorously at Random for people not to lynch her?)

@Daniel Grazian - we asked for a clarification of which staircase lukesci died on and they refused further clarification.

@Lily: That mostly makes sense. Some comments:

-Re 2): What don powers? (Assuming Shi-Ke killed ksedlar)
-Trap is not even necessary given they didn't make any other kill today. They could've been planning to try, though.
-With Shi-Ke and Luke as the two killers, what other evidence is there for kmath being mafia? Not saying there isn't any, just asking for a quantification. Is it mostly just the arguing against lynching Shi-Ke on day 1? I don't think the lukesci incident increases probability kmath is mafia, by any means.

The location on mafia-app is whatever luke entered in the web form when he reported his death. If it had been the back stairs, I think he probably would have said so, so I think he most likely was killed on the front stairs.

The gods are probably refusing to clarify because they don't know, as the only source they have is luke. (They could ask him, but that would be a hassle)

Well, the death could also have been reported by the killer, but I don't think the killer would intentionally make a misleading description for location either. (This is probably not allowed.)

Oops, you're right, trap wouldn't have been necessary, but I wouldn't discount the possibility of them having used it, because why not. Shike couldn't have been Don, because he turned up guilty for killing ksedlar.


That, plus the likelihood that Shike would have wanted to conscript kmath (or vice versa), given that they're dating and both of them being mafia would make it much easier to make kills, or just wanting to be on the same side.


Maybe not, but it sure as hell doesn't decrease the probability that kmath is mafia, at least in my opinion. If kmath is mafia, the lukesci incident would have been the perfect thing to make people less suspicious of her / less inclined to lynch her. She also suggested to me via pm (before it became publicly known that Luke shoveled as SK) that I tase her secretly, so that if a kill happened while she was tased (assuming Luke was mafia and there were 2 mafia left before Luke's death), she would be proven innocent. This clearly wouldn't work, if Luke was a SK, but it seems like the sort of contrived thing that mafia-kmath would come up with to throw people off.

Kmath, if you're actually innocent, I'm sorry, but I think you're sketchy af and nothing you've done so far has changed that opinion.

Yeah I know, my point was that as far as we know no living players made either of the first two kills, so there was no don counter to reset.

This is valid, though also tends to be pretty risky strategically (case study, summer game 3). I don't know them well enough to know if this is a risk either of them would take.

Also, something I wanted to comment on: I think there's still a nontrivial chance that Luke was framed and planted. I don't know how large this is. Either way, we should be able to find a mafia by mayoring if location was not messed with. I think we still have contradicting info on the location - ltchin said she was "not sure about timing" at first, then changed to saying she was completely sure; there are claims by jamb that Luke was at squares, though this could be Luke lying to make it seem like an mtp; it's still hard to imagine several players on pecker and clam not noticing a kill or a Luke.

OH and also another reason for killing Luke: if he killed arkadiy, he had his medkit, which mafia would've wanted to get rid of. But I guess mafia could have just asked for it... This is all still pretty strange.

No scenarios make sense.

Case 1: Luke was vigilante killed. Why have there been no vigilante claims?
Case 2: Luke was framed. Why did the mafia then kill him? There was a very good chance he was getting executed anyway.
Case 3: Luke was not framed. He actually killed arkadiyf. Would the mafia really kill their own serial killer? I guess. Maybe?
Case 4: Is there anything else as plausible as the above situations? Am I missing anything?

For Case 3, see lilychen's reasons.

For case 2, it could be that no actual mafia were on the chopping block so mafia wanted to kill him and get someone else lynched. Or the reverse psychology version of this. But they could've just killed a different player, I guess.

Also, just realized there's no reason for the killer not to be don if Luke was guilty, so be cautious how much investigative effort we put in.

Just would like to say that you're misrepresenting my statements a bit. I have consistently said here and here that although i can not give you an exact time of when lukesci was in Random, I can say that he was in the building around 30 - 45 minutes from my post at 11:21 PM - putting him in Random at around 10:30 - 10:45 PM. This is consistent with his reported death in Random Hall.

It's also not terribly surprising that no one on Clam or Pecker saw lukesci leave the building. I saw lukesci walk through Destiny Kitchen from the back to the front, which implies that he walked down the 282 back staircase. Nobody usually leaves Random this way unless they did not want to be seen. I propose that for some reason, after dying, lukesci walked over the roofdeck and down the 282 back staircase as this avoids all major common areas where players would be. This really heavily implies mafia shenanigans with lukesci.

Investigations should be done on all Randomites. In particular, I'm personally sketched out by jamb and kmath.

Oh, I should have mentioned this: the shovel passing was public on pecker, so jamb, kmath, and Josh Frisch all knew I was probably going to shovel Luke before he died.

By that do you mean that before Luke was killed, you expected that he would be executed, and you were planning on shoveling him afterward?

Yes.

So one thing I'm wondering is how Luke got to the back staircase of pecker in the first place. If he went through destiny kitchen, Ltchin probably would have said that she saw him twice. If he went through the lounge or through foo without being seen going in, why would he take a different path on the way out (especially one where a player posted that they would be)? Seems a bit odd.

More reasons for case 2:

Dead serial killer = investigators get fewer clues.

Simply the most convenient kill, in order to avoid a no kill day.

Err whoops I mean case 3

It wouldn't have been a no-kill day, I think, because of arkadiyf's death earlier. Looking at the rules, it appears that a rogue-kill satisfies the daily-kill requirement.

There's another possible explanation for the events yesterday that I don't think we've considered:

Luke might have been framed by the mafia and killed by a serial killer who thought he was mafia. The mafia would then have planted evidence to cause confusion and/or obfuscate the fact that frame had been used.

I think this explanation is particularly compelling because it doesn't require any particularly strange play on anybody's part.

Question about Luke: He had told some players before he died that he was conspiracy theorist? Who did he tell, and did he mention who was on his conspiracy list?

I like that theory but would a SK not contact luke beforehand? In which case I'd trust Luke to tell someone that so-and-so was claiming Rogue to him (though maybe he got a lot of people revealing.) Also this assumes mafia wasn't in contact with the SK by day 1 via shike. And it also doesn't answer what Luke was doing there. Josh says he didn't go into his room.