Live Action Mafia

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 Post subject: Mildly sketchy things
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:16 pm 
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DGrazian advocated priests making a list that isn't of maximal size. This is fairly clearly bad strategy.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:34 pm 
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Isaac, nastya, Dgrazian, and Sammy are trying to run for elected positions. This act has historically been mildly correlated with being mafia. This is not out of character for any of them, but the behavior is least surprising from Sammy.

If it weren't for my pre-commitment to not running around with petitions, I would be sketchy from a global perspective for NOT actively running for an elected position (if you throw out my first game, I've been elected into an elected position every non-mystery game where I've been town, but not in every game when I've been mafia).

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:59 pm 
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on isaacg:
sammyluo wrote:
^ I think this feels kind of sketchy, but I can't quantify why. Something about being uncharacteristically quick to take the initiative to start your own petition, and not someone else's for the other position...

I would advocate against electing isaacg on these grounds, but these are not strong feelings, so I'm not sure.


I'm probably reading too much into this, but thought it was worth reposting here for future reference anyway.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:07 pm 

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Lucy asked me for my item.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:25 pm 
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ksedlar wrote:
Isaac, nastya, Dgrazian, and Sammy are trying to run for elected positions. This act has historically been mildly correlated with being mafia.


Add Tuan to this list.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:10 pm 
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andytsai voted for ajliu on day 1.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:26 pm 
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Aok walked into black hole lounge soon before day end, saw the People present, and left again. He was on his phone while he did this. This makes me suspect him off committing or scouting for jfrisch's death.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:47 pm 
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sammyluo wrote:
Tuan was stalked by tsims stalker on day 1, says Katie.

Tuan confirms and says he was too busy to know to reveal


This makes tuan (nguyenin) fairly sketchy to me. In particular, he was active enough to run around to all of game and complete two petitions in record time, but he claims to not have been active enough to read forums as well as every other stalker target?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:55 pm 
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Here is my alibi: I didn't read all the forums during the week (besides obviously the jerbs one) because 1) hosage and 2) I'm a fuckup. Like, I will read the forums from now on daily. Also, I was on the tetazoo camping trip doing things/sleeping Friday and Saturday, which also hampered my ability to read forums. Really, this boils down to me not reading the forums enough. But otherwise I don't think I've done much else that's sketchy

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:13 pm 
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andytsai voted for ksedlar day 2.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:35 pm 
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tsims started acting kind of anxious in private communications after Clouseau's positive group investigation. His "explanation" was that he felt #triggered by the use of information theory.

Also, when asked whether jakob seemed especially sketchy, tsims said not especially, but then gave a ~65% probability that Jakob was town (i.e. >twice as sketchy as average), correcting it when pointed out.

However, tsims seemed fine in person earlier, so perhaps it is just the #triggering.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:07 pm 
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Sammy Luo, that summary "#triggered by the use of information theory" sounds so oversimplified it makes you sound sketchy for oversimplifying that hard. Which isn't to say tsims hasn't been acting sketchy, just that I want to hear his reasoning in more detail.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:19 pm 
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More detail (tsims can confirm): the conversation went as follows (paraphrasing):

I ask him what he meant by the Venn diagram thing, he gives an elaboration of the thing he suggested on the investigations thread, I ask him why it wasn't better to just pick half the group, he says logic is hard, I say to think of it as information theory, he gives a sarcastic comment.

I then ask him about Jakob's sketchiness, he gives the ~65% town, I calculate the implication, he clarifies that the number didn't accurately portray his feelings of sketch levels, and I say ok.

He asks me how sketchy he seems, lol, I tell him he seemed fine in person, he says lol ok, I tell him he seemed anxious while talking about info theory, he says it reminds him of Shannon entropy in 8.044, #triggered, I make an irrelevant joking comment, he makes a joking reply.

-----------

Essentially, I summarized his explanation the way I did because there wasn't really much content. It's more just that I got a vague sense of anxiety from him, congruent with e.g. summer game 2? But as I said, nothing he did before the positive group investigation felt especially sketchy to me.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:24 pm 
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Thanks for clarifying.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:32 pm 

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Lilychen died. That on its own always adds mild sketchiness to dgrazian.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:43 pm 
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Is anything stopping sammyluo from feeding false information to the GCSN? Specifically things told to him in his role as proxy, like tsims' role. Also his position makes him a potential conscription target. If we have some day a few days the future with no good lynch, we might want to lynch sammyluo and pick a new proxy, but that's risky too.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:45 pm 

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People who feed information to the GCSN through sammyluo should probably occasionally post it publicly as a check against that. For instance, if tsims is still getting executed, he should probably post his role claim publicly in case sammyluo lied about it.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:49 pm 
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One way to show that sammy is acting nonsketchily is for the GCSN to get another proxy to post the role that sammy told them, and confirm this by shoveling tsims (assuming that shovels work on lynched people). This is fallible by the second proxy lying, the shoveler lying, etc, but it mgiht be worth thinking about.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:53 pm 
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This has no faults other than plant evidence assuming the shoveling comes from the GCSN. The only important thing is that the GCSN knows if sammyluo is sketchy, they will dictate to town his sketchiness if needed.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:51 am 
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sammyluo wrote:
ltchin has acted (and trollingly claims mafia / does not answer "no" to "are you mafia," but this probably means nothing)


Reposting this here, because I did sense a little bit of psychological discomfort during that conversation? and now there is the additional fact that:

ltchin proxied a sketchy pair of investigations that she then claimed to belong to a dead probable mafia. This is a classic play for mafia caught making sketchy investigations.

Also, she did not output her investigations until I pmed her a few hours ago asking if her investigator was still alive. And they're two investigations of different types, and apparently both for day 3? So yeah, many levels of sketch.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:20 am 
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Oh, before I forget:

Last night, at one point I asked nastya (in person) whether she was typing up a town square post. She said, no, she was messaging someone to try to get more investigators to proxy through her (???), even though we'd explicitly talked earlier about the fact that we shouldn't pick proxies who volunteer themselves, etc.

It seemed like a credible point of confusion at the time (as in, she acted confused after I gave my reply), but I'm not sure how good nastya is at lying / acting confused, and this along with several other points of that conversation that felt slightly odd (for less concrete reasons), makes me feel a little bit of sketch.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:20 pm 

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I don't remember the conversation very clearly (because, well, I was drunk (sammy, ksedlar, nastya, tsims, ltchin can probably confirm)) but in the 1E party I was jokingly blaming jakob for killing ijc and then he got back at me saying I did it, and then I started whining about not being able to because I'm not mafia, and then he was asking me if I wanted to be mafia, if I wanted to kill people. Which I found a little sketchy.

Just thought any bit of information on the jakob/tsims mess could be useful.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:50 pm 

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sammyluo wrote:
Oh, before I forget:

Last night, at one point I asked nastya (in person) whether she was typing up a town square post. She said, no, she was messaging someone to try to get more investigators to proxy through her (???), even though we'd explicitly talked earlier about the fact that we shouldn't pick proxies who volunteer themselves, etc.

It seemed like a credible point of confusion at the time (as in, she acted confused after I gave my reply), but I'm not sure how good nastya is at lying / acting confused, and this along with several other points of that conversation that felt slightly odd (for less concrete reasons), makes me feel a little bit of sketch.


Ok, I did have a conversation about it with sammyluo later on facebook and explained him my reasoning, so I guess it would be appropriate to post my messages here.

nastya wrote:
I didn't actually end up messaging anyone yesterday after you told me that I should not do that, but I was going through forums to think whom I might message and then composing a message for them. I was trying to write an elaborate message to explain people why I was even messaging and to give good reasons to investigate that other person even though tsims (right? I'm not sure about the name) was already found guilty and my other investigation didn't give any results.

[Message from sammyluo, cannot copy.]

Because I was generally frustrated with the fact that tsims was found guilty so fast and then nobody even considered checking anyone else. Especially taking into account that he killed someone else later. (Or was found to be guilty.)

I was going to poke people that were very active on investigator thread because they are either investigators themselves or are proxying for someone else.

Either way, those people had a chance to do something about investigations.

[sammyluo understands my reasoning, somewhat agrees with me but proceeds to tell me that pming someone is sketchy. Also, he mentions that I should pm investigators/proxies only when they are not posting anything in a while.]

Well, after you told me that it's generally not a good idea to state publicly who you are going to investigate because mafia can mess with it, I decided that pm might be more secure. Besides, if I pm mafia, they can easily protect a person deflecting any guilt and avoiding unnecessary exposure because they would think that it's more personal. But if I get two people to investigate independently, not knowing about the investigations occuring, they can return contradictory results and I would know that one of them is mafia.

[sammyluo considers my point.]

The main issue here is trust

If people could trust one person and concentrate all investigations anonymously to that one person and then post after all investigations occured, mafia would avoid fake investigations because then that person would easily catch them. However, that person would instantly become a target for the mafia. Unless, of course, that person is a mafia themselves.

[sammyluo agrees with me.]

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:53 pm 

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fmajluf7 wrote:
I don't remember the conversation very clearly (because, well, I was drunk (sammy, ksedlar, nastya, tsims, ltchin can probably confirm)) but in the 1E party I was jokingly blaming jakob for killing ijc and then he got back at me saying I did it, and then I started whining about not being able to because I'm not mafia, and then he was asking me if I wanted to be mafia, if I wanted to kill people. Which I found a little sketchy.

Just thought any bit of information on the jakob/tsims mess could be useful.


Well, I cannot confirm that conversation. I didn't actually talk to fmajluf7 during the party, we just got introduce to each other and moved on to have conversations with other people. However, fmajluf7 was the person I investigated for killing ijc (I think you can find that in the investigation thread) and she came out innocent. That's what I have.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:01 pm 

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Oh, the conversation was not heard. I was referring to me being drunk. Even though I talked to you beforehand, so I guess you can't confirm it.


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