Piper, are you actually quitting?!? Why?
| Live Action Mafia http://mafia.mit.edu/ |
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| Day 2 discussion http://mafia.mit.edu/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=360 |
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| Author: | VivianLee [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Day 2 discussion |
Gogogogo. |
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| Author: | wings [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:42 am ] |
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I am leaving the game. |
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| Author: | lizrita [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:44 am ] |
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Aw damn, missed the death and didn't come back in time to change my vote. Oh well :/ |
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| Author: | Lydia Krasilnikova [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:50 am ] |
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Piper, are you actually quitting?!? Why?
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| Author: | wings [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:54 am ] |
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Yes, I am actually leaving the game, and have confirmed so with Molly. You can ask why at the end of game if you'd like, but I won't say more for now. |
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| Author: | Jacobian [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:03 am ] |
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You'll be dearly missed Piper. I hope that everything is okay, and sorry if I had a part in that. |
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| Author: | Steven Valdez [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:47 am ] |
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I've been busy with Ham Exam and Battlecode, and thought the deadline was at 6 AM. Any chance voting could be extended to 6 AM? |
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| Author: | wings [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:55 am ] |
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I'm fine, all. Nothing to worry about, now stop posting about me and just continue play 
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| Author: | VivianLee [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:56 am ] |
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^ how did you think the deadline was 6am? O___o I thought Molly made the rules fairly clear (and Alex/Dgrazian have commented on voting in a timely manner). Of course if you haven't bothered to read the forums I guess that's acceptable, but meh. Aww, sad to see you go, Piper best of luck with everything
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| Author: | krue [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:51 am ] |
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It's Steven. There really doesn't need to be more reason than that as to why he thought silly things. Also, just letting people know, I will probably be much less active on the forum in the coming days. My laptop has mysteriously decided it doesn't want to be able to read the hard drive, so my only access to the Internet is through Athena and the goodwill of others. I will however be around for any and all in person mass discussions that I hear about (except possibly if the Guild 10-day sucks me away, although given the amount of player list crossover, I'm pretty sure it'll work out somehow), and I will definitely find time to vote every day. |
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| Author: | ebdavis [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:28 pm ] |
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So, this is complete conjecture, but: If we assume Jacobi and Austin are innocent and Rob was guilty, the mafia's kill yeaterday was dumb; they should have just let us lynch an innocent (Jacobi or Austin) and not lost one of their members in such a blatantly obvious assassination. I am sceptical the mafia are that dumb. Thus, I would conjecture that either Jacobi or Austin is mafia, and the kill was done as a cover for one of them, or Rob was not Mafia, and the real mafia managed to (somehow) get him to take the fall for them. Or else everything is what it seems and the mafia were just dumb. That's a real possibility, too. |
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| Author: | Chewy Shaw [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:44 pm ] |
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ebdavis wrote: Or else everything is what it seems and the mafia were just dumb. That's a real possibility, too.
From my experience with the fall game, this is what I attribute it to right now. There are a few people who can tell you that I acted very stupidly based on the assumption that mafia is not being dumb and I ended up destroying the townspeople's last chance of victory. The most likely scenario as I see it is as follows: This was the first day, mafia had not made a kill, may have not had really good central communication. So one member of the mafia decides to make a kill when there are no players around in hopes of helping out his team and not making the first day useless, but it backfires on him. Of course the other scenario, that Jacobi or Austin is mafia and did a really good, sneaky trick to fully convince us that Rob was mafia, is also a possibility, but I see it as being less likely. |
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| Author: | Jacobian [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:19 pm ] |
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At our discussion last night, we spent a long time going over conspiracy theories of this sort. Most people agreed that this required four or so carefully planned maneuvers and two instances of blind luck for anyone other than Rob to be the killer, which seems unlikely. Believe what you will however. Also to reiterate, there is a table mafia game/meet the players thing set up for tonight at seven at Random. Everyone is encouraged to attend, it would be nice to get to know all of the other players a bit. Kickoff was a thing, but three Randomites (myself included) and probably other people slept through it. |
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| Author: | AdamYedidia [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:07 pm ] |
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I don't know anything about Austin, but I believe Jacobi to be innocent. He's been acting pretty paranoid, and although he may just be a good actor I think he's likelier than most people to be a townsperson. |
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| Author: | Daniel Grazian [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:46 pm ] |
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Listen to Chewy. He put it really well. This was almost certainly just a mafia blunder. It happens. And yes, table mafia tonight at Random! (and maybe other fun things like board games etc.) People who do not live at Random are especially encouraged to come. We want the town to be as coordinated as possible. (Also, if you are the investigator(s) that I do not know about, you can always investigate Tom's murder to confirm that it was Rob.) RSVP on the "Table Mafia" thread. And please come if you can! It will be fun. |
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| Author: | Alex [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:02 pm ] |
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I have strong reason to believe Lydia Krasilnikova is Mafia. I am starting a lynch mob for Lydia, and will push it for today unless the situation changes significantly. I base this on Lydia's stubborn defense of Rob in Foo before (and after) he was lynched, and to a lesser extent on her asking Daniel Grazian to tell her who the Investigator is. Lydia argued really hard and really strongly against the overwhelming consensus lynching FreshmanRob last night. This was not “I have some doubts, let’s think this through” disagreement. She adamantly and unflinchingly defended Freshman Rob (her fellow Mafia), even after two NP eyewitnesses said that Rob killed Tom, and even after it was announced by proxy that an Investigator had confirmed him. She argued theories that ranged from vastly unlikely to impossible. Many players saw this and can confirm she acted this way. This was a desperate effort to save her fellow Mafia Rob from his impending lynching. Lydia was the only one who voted to lynch someone other the Rob, except people who evidently were away during the last hour and thus kept voting for Austin.. She voted for DBR without arguing against him. When I asked her afterwards, she gave no reason other than that DBR lives in Foo. She had argued for me as the killer, but voted for DBR. My second reason to suspect Lydia is that she asked Daniel to tell her who the Investigator is. Daniel had said he asked the Investigator to investigate Rob for killing Tom and the Investigator got a positive. Daniel wisely kept secret who the Investigator was. Multiple players announced that they trusted this result. Obviously, Mafia would want to know who is Investigator to kill her or him. Lydia said knowing the Investigator’s identity would influence her vote in the Rob situation, but didn’t say how or why. Given the clear-cut case for lynching Rob, I don’t believe revealing any information about the Investigator could be reasonably justified. When Daniel hesitated, Lydia retreated to asking if a given person is Investigator. Daniel correctly still refused. I'd appreciate if those in Foo at the time would corroborate my statements of what happened. |
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| Author: | Daniel Grazian [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:13 pm ] |
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I will confirm that everything Alex said is accurate. Several of us discussed this last night after we lynched Rob and determined that, barring extraordinary circumstances, Lydia should be next. |
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| Author: | krue [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:28 pm ] |
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I can also confirm that what Alex says is true. I agree with his logic and think that if no new information comes up to change my opinion I will be voting for Lydia tonight. |
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| Author: | AustinFathman [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:06 pm ] |
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yes, let's not lynch Austin! What a boring death! I would much rather be stabbed in the back by mafia than be stabbed in the back by the town! *cough cough* anyone from mafia want to come kill me? Bring it!  Face the fury of my nunchucks! oh, you have a gun do you... *bam* *cough cough* lol
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| Author: | Daniel Grazian [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:37 pm ] |
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Anyone who has not already done so should read the Basic Strategy thread from Alex and me. Feel free to comment. Also, Table Mafia / town meeting in Random (Foo Lounge) in 25 minutes! |
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| Author: | Lydia Krasilnikova [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:12 pm ] |
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Oh woops. I just read this. Apparently I'm getting lynched. I assure you that I am not mafia. To address Alex's points…. I defended Rob because he seemed really upset about getting lynched and taken out the game, and emotional enough that I thought maybe he was honestly not mafia and had been framed. I was furthermore suspicious of much of the information coming from nonconfirmable sources (investigator who might not be investigator or who might not even exist and non-players from a floor that is notorious for trolling and could have just as easily lied for a mafia member who asked them to lie), making a framing possible. I can especially sympathize with him feeling like he was being lynched just for being new and feeling excluded, since that was how I felt when I first started hanging out at his dorm, MacGregor, last semester. I thought that in his emotional state he wouldn't be lying, and I didn't want to be ganging up on him like everyone else seemed to be. Maybe I was wrong. That's not a very logical thing to base conclusions off of, but I'm not a very logical person. Later that evening I talked with the non-players involved about whether or not they'd troll a mafia game and they said they wouldn't troll something that was so important to someone. In retrospect I'm glad Rob was lynched, and if I were more confident about the NPs' testimony I would have voted for him as well. I voted for DBR not because he lives in Foo but because he is a Randommite we had not accounted for. If I were mafia and made a kill in the building I lived in I would have hidden before and after the event in hopes that people wouldn't lynch me because of a lack of information. It occurred to me that maybe he did that. When I thought that maybe Rob was suspicious and worth voting for I considered that maybe he had hidden because he was investigator and didn't want to be connected to the investigation, and not because he was mafia. Since dgrazian apparently knew who was Investigator I wanted to ask him if DBR could have been it. This was apparently a pretty bad idea. Sorry, I should have made my reasons more clear, and I should have read this thread sooner. I'm in BMF kitchen right now blogging and making cake(s); feel free to come find me to talk (as a group, preferably). |
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| Author: | VivianLee [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:51 pm ] |
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Tbh I am skeptical of Lydia's defense, and Alex'a reasoning has been sound. That said, it also seems like there's been some really close communication between Dgrazian and Alex lately, and I'm not sure who else has been part of that. I haven't seen anyone in person yet so I don't know if all of this private discussion was for purposes of proxying or not. Regardless, right now I am leaning towards Lydia unless more information comes forward. Sorry couldn't make it to table mafia tonight
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| Author: | AdamYedidia [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:15 pm ] |
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Despite Lydia's rather convincing response, I will be voting for her for the reasons outlined by Alex Arkhipov. |
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| Author: | lizrita [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:24 pm ] |
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I agree that Alex and Daniel are crazy close, but for now I think I'd rather vote for Lydia than be up in the air and confused. I would feel better if someone else would confirm Alex's and Daniel's discussions in the future. |
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| Author: | Jwu [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:25 pm ] |
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Lydia put some good points... but I feel like Alex has a better argument. Sorry Lydia :/ |
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| Author: | Dalton Allan [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:29 pm ] |
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I still agree with Alex. I am voting for Lydia as well. |
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| Author: | benkraft [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:28 pm ] |
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I find the lynch mob somewhat concerning. I think it's very true that Lydia gave some shoddy reasoning, but on the other hand, it was very much against the grain of the town. Mafia often try to sway town opinion, but it's usually swaying minor suspicions or their synthesis, rather than standing up to the weight of a lynch mob -- the latter is likely to look bad and unlikely to work. I will also point out that Lydia was one of those more opposed to the previous lynch mob; I'm not sure what this means. That said, I think she's probably a better target, although our friendly neighborhood troll might still be worth considering. I'm going to vote for Lydia for now, but I may very well change that if there's reason to. |
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| Author: | Daniel Grazian [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:28 pm ] |
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Forgot to mention I voted for Lydia a few hours ago. First off the discussions regarding Lydia were not private or secret between Alex and me. There were several people present. And Alex and I have been talking together, because we were bouncing ideas off each other and trying to determine how much we trust each other. Conversations like these should be encouraged (see my notes under Basic Strategy.) |
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| Author: | Chewy Shaw [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:31 pm ] |
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I too think Lydia is still the best option and will be voting as such. |
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| Author: | Josh Frisch [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:33 pm ] |
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Confirming that lydia discussions were public (or at least, that I and several others (crew, dalton, and jacobi) were there as we were convincing. Private conversations are also quite beneficial for the town and should NOT be used to attempt to indict somebody as mafia, Mafia have an entire forum to themselves. |
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