Live Action Mafia

Discussion Day 1
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Author:  Daniel Grazian [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Discussion Day 1

Hi everybody! Discussion Day x is the page where the general public forum conversation occurs on Day x. Please start new threads wherever appropriate. I will be making a post on general strategy soon (and Alex Arkhipov probably will as well) but in the mean time, I'd recommend that you look at our posts in the Basic Strategy thread of the IAP 2012 game.

A couple points though that cannot wait:

1. Read the rules. The rules are several pages long, but you should read them thoroughly. You can't play well if you don't know the rules.

2. If you are a power role, do not go around telling people your role! There are definitely circumstances when you want to confide with someone(s) but never, ever do it arbitrarily. If you have a question about how your role works, ask Jacobi.

3. Keep up on the forum; participate in the discussions on and off the forum

4. If you are investigator, use your power every single day.

5. More to follow :)

Also, I want to be mayor. The mayor is a much stronger and town-useful role than in previous games; we definitely want to have a mayor. I've left a petition in black hole kitchen.

Obviously, I can't expect you to trust me right now, though I hope I'll quickly get the town's trust; I'm a relatively bad liar and tend to talk enough in this game that if I were scum, I would slip up. However, you don't need to trust me to elect me mayor. If I were mafia, I couldn't sabotage the town as mayor without being really obvious, at least not before close to the end of the game. And we want the mayor's abilities to be available to the town.

With that said, if someone else, preferably an experienced player, wants to be mayor, that might be okay. The most important thing is that we have a mayor.

So sign my petition in Black Hole kitchen! I'll try to get it circulating around more later today.

Author:  Alex [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:38 am ]
Post subject: 

Strategy post.

Daniel's post covered the important bits of starting strategy, and there's just one thing I want to add.

The biggest threat to the town is apathy -- not a daring ploy for the Mafia, not any of the Mafia's abilities, but simply players not doing stuff. If players don't participate, or they just do whatever the crowd is doing, Mafia wins easily by becoming the majority voice. See this fall's game for a stark example. To combat this, do stuff. Be aware, read the forums, and make your own judgments. It doesn't require loads or time nor loads of gameplay skill.

I agree with Daniel that we should have a Mayor immediately. With the new Mayor abilities, having a Mayor is a large buff to town without much risk, as a Mafia Mayor could do little harm until endgame. I'd be for Daniel being Mayor, or anyone being Mayor.

Author:  Lydia Krasilnikova [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:45 am ]
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Let's have a IRL get-together! There are so many of you I don't know and want to meet. Maybe we could play table mafia, or just sit around and tool together if people are hosed, or alternate between the two? We could meet up somewhere closer to all the dorms, if Random is too far. When are people free over the next few days?

Author:  Alcor [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:46 am ]
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Just to get my feet wet and my hands dirty, I'd like to try for Mayor. All candidates need opposition, don't you think?

As for why you should trust me, well, I can't tell you that I'm Kludgite Not Mafia, but I will say that if I *were* Mafia, I wouldn't want to paint a huge bullseye on my back by putting myself in a position where people would be watching me like hawks from game start. Power is nice, but on the other hand, if everyone was out to get me, I'd lie low until I thought people were watching someone else.

tl;dr I also don't like having a boring role


Author:  c-rock [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:01 am ]
Post subject: 

I think dgrazian shouldn't be mayor because he's really useful in keeping the game active and going, and I'm pretty sure the Mafia will want to kill the Mayor.

Also, any chance we can sign petitions online/on the forum?

Author:  kbeth [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:07 am ]
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I will probably be around Random tonight - if people are hanging out I will try to stop by

Author:  Jacobian [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:42 am ]
Post subject: 

Petitions must have physical signatures, and physically be handed to me before a Mayor can be elected. Don't forget that you need a strict majority of living players, minimum 5.

Author:  Jacobian [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:08 pm ]
Post subject: 

Also note that the rules have been update to express what I put in that last post. I won't be changing the rules any more during game, unless there is very good reason.

Author:  Chewy Shaw [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:27 pm ]
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c-rock makes a good point. As much as I think dgrazian would be a great mayor, we do need to weigh in the fact that the mayor is powerful and that mafia would likely want to kill off any non-mafia mayors. Becoming mayor is likely to put a large target on your chest. So we should consider that when deciding whether it is a good idea to make dgrazian mayor right now (or for any mayor elections that may happen in the future). I do think he is a great candidate for being mayor, much for many of the reasons he listed. However if that means he will die soon, we should decide on the merits in that case.

I will probably still sign the petition because I can't think of anyone else right now who would be quite as good of an option and it would be really good to have a mayor for most of game. I would say that we should attempt to make the role of mayor filled as continuously as possible, (and I will also start becoming somewhat suspicious of any mayor that stays alive for more than 5 days).

Author:  Enrique [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:44 pm ]
Post subject: 

Hello fellow townspeople!

I too am announcing my candidacy for mayor. However, instead of taking your precious time by claiming to be too honest/incompetent of being mafia while running for mayor, I will take the time to elaborate on some procedures I would implement as mayor.

1. In the past, many an investigator has been outed by carelessly revealing to much information to too many untrustworthy parties. Over the next few days, I will provide pre-addressed and stamped envelopes to Random Hall and anyone who requests them. To demonstrate my commitment, I will deliver them personally across campus. Simply insert any message and place them into any convenient mailbox, and your message will be sent safely and anonymously.

2. Given the sensitivity of several of the items should the fall into the wrong hands, would also like to appropriate funds for a safety depository. Members that volunteer for this program will given an envelope to place items. They are then sealed and initialed. Once per day, at a prearranged time and place, I will present you with your initialed, sealed envelope for you to inspect. If citizens agree, we can then pool these items and redistribute them randomly until the next check period. These actions will prevent the mafia from making accurate hits to acquire forged documents and destroy our surveillance equipment.

Remember folks. A vote for me is a vote for a better tomorrow. Vote for me if you want aggressive leadership in the face of rampant crime. These are dangerous times. Be aware of of your surroundings. Only through working together can we prevail. I will be around Random later today to take questions and elaborate my position. Thank you!

Enrique Cintron
Mayoral Candidate
(321) 217-4353

tl;dr Vote for me, I'm better than the rest.

Author:  AustinFathman [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Mayor

Might as well run for mayor myself! I'm not a randomite, more of a maseehdonian, but I believe we can root out these nasty mafia so at least a few of us can survive! That is all. 8)

Author:  Dalton Allan [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:33 pm ]
Post subject: 

It does not matter much who the mayor is right now. We should elect someone other than Austin and then just switch mayors whenever the mafia kill the mayor, no-kill, or enough time passes.

Author:  Chewy Shaw [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:50 pm ]
Post subject: 

I am strictly against any of the anonymous actions that Enrique is proposing. Anonymous actions always give more power to the mafia than to the town. In the way we normally operate, we have accountability for information. If someone claims to be investigator and says that one person is innocent, but another investigator says that person is guilty, we know for certain that one of the two of them is lying to us and should be lynched. If both of these people give their information anonymously, we have no usable data which means that the mafia can always muddy up our information with no risk to them. Anytime someone wants to make an important statement, there should always be a way to track it back to them if information shows up to prove them wrong. Even if that is through a path of 1-2 proxy informants (which I strongly suggest any investigator use), we should be able to suspect those who lie to us of being mafia.

Additionally, having the items spread out is much better for us now than having them all collected by one central source. A safety depository can be compromised, and if it is the mafia may gain access to many useful items. By keeping them spread out, we reduce the chance that the mafia is able to quickly create a sink for the items and take away our ability to use them appropriately.

Author:  Enrique [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:12 pm ]
Post subject: 

Daniel. Perhaps I was a bit unclear with my statements earlier as they were written in short breaks while at work. What I would actually propose is to have an anonymous random but checkable redistribution of items. It would go as follows.

1. Envelopes are distributed. Items are inserted. Envelopes are sealed and initialed by their respective owners.

2. They are then inserted into blank envelopes and sealed. All blank envelopes (some without items) are shuffled and then numbered. Numbered list is published to forums.

3. After a prearranged time, envelopes are all brought together, and inventoried by all parties. Penalty for missing items is and/or envelopes is severe suspicion and/or death.

This system, if followed properly prevent the effective use of the search warrant and abuse of the mayoral ability to confiscate items. Furthermore, items cannot be specifically targeted with known information.

Author:  Enrique [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:13 pm ]
Post subject: 

* Chewey not Daniel.


Author:  Alex [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:14 pm ]
Post subject: 

There's no more search warrant this game, only the Mayor's "Search a Citizen" power.

Author:  Dalton Allan [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:15 pm ]
Post subject: 

I did not read what Enrique was suggesting carefully before. I agree with Chewy. Information helps town, so we should not have anonymous communication. With regard to the item repository, remember that someone must be in possession of the items at all times. If searched or killed, you must give all stashed items to the person who searched or killed you. Therefore, this proposal seems likely to work iff we give all of the items to a non-mafia ironheart mayor after the mafia have already conscripted and poisoned, which is not going to happen.

Author:  Alcor [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:16 pm ]
Post subject: 

Enrique is trying to pull a typical Guild move: make a good-guy mob (which is most often led by a bad guy, remember that) and thus find scapegoats in the form of people who don't like the plan once it gets going.

This is my theory.

Author:  Enrique [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:26 pm ]
Post subject: 

Chewy, the problem with your proposition is that we have to know who both of the investigators are in order to use the strategy in question. The mafia could still insert false information via not to complicated arrangements within a 30 person game. However, you do present a point that reputation build better information. Perhaps a compromise would be to set up an anonymous dead drop with an alias that could be entrusted to a couple of trusted keepers. A system of three keepers could be set up so that exact identity of the investigator remains hidden but would be able to check and record the history of that investigator.

Author:  Enrique [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:33 pm ]
Post subject: 

Alex: oops, sorry! Thanks for the info.

Alcor: Argumentum Ad Hominem - Regardless of what may be a typical guild move, the question is whether these are good policies.

Author:  Enrique [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:35 pm ]
Post subject: 

Addendum: All blank envelopes are shuffled, numbered, and distributed.

Author:  Alcor [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:39 pm ]
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Buried strategies, especially in a diplomatic game, are very valid.

Author:  c-rock [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:17 pm ]
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Given that we only have a few hours left, should we start talking about who we want to lynch if the Mafia does not kill anyone?

Author:  ebdavis [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:37 pm ]
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Assuming nothing else happens, I vote Enrique; he is suggesting (especially the anonymous tips idea, and arguably the other one) policies that would directly benefit the mafia. Either he's mafia, or just has weird ideas of what town should be doing, but either way, he appears to be the most lynch-worthy at the moment.

Assuming the mafia don't kill anyone.

Author:  krue [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:41 pm ]
Post subject: 

Unless something happens, I'm probably going to vote for Enrique. Not sure how much of this is his Guild tendency to set of my sketch-dar and how much is the fact that I really don't think that keeping everything *that* anonymous is as good a plan as he's trying to convince us it is. The town starts with a lot more uncertainty than the mafia, and I feel like it's good for people to voice their suspicions at least a little more openly than an anonymous letter that won't arrive for a few days.

Author:  Alcor [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:44 pm ]
Post subject: 

I vote to lynch Enrique. His tactics smack of power-grabbing instead of cooperation, and even if he's trying to help, he is currently setting off my sketch-dar for these reasons. Maybe it's just the way he's saying things, maybe he really is Mafia trying for a power boost, but either way, I don't like the idea of random lynchings, and Enrique is filling this slot for me.

And since people have asked me, no, this is not about "let's lynch the productive folks." It's "let's lynch people who don't seem to be of a cooperative approach to dealing with the town."

Author:  Enrique [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:01 pm ]
Post subject: 

Evidence is to contrary. In every past game, the mafia has gained an early advantage in the number of votes it gets due to how careless people are with information. Don't take my word for it. Look in the directory of past games. Providing a system to create a randomized but checkable system should be an effective way of protecting this sensitive information. I am only trying to employ basic information practices that have shown some reliability to work in the field. So instead of saying that this sounds weird or different provide for why this is bad policy.

Author:  Alex [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:03 pm ]
Post subject: 

I see nothing sketchy about Enrique's posts. Last game, Enrique (who wasn't playing) told me about ideas in the same vein. I'd guess he's been brainstorming these types of things for a while.

Whether or not you agree with convoluted plan about items or bid for Mayor, you shouldn't mob to lynch him just because he put out an elaborate and weird suggestion.

Author:  Lydia Krasilnikova [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:04 pm ]
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Okay. We'll make a system to make a system. :p

Isn't it in our favor to lynch every evening, even if it's at Random? One person is much more of a loss to the mafia than to the town.

Author:  Lydia Krasilnikova [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:04 pm ]
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*at random, not at Random. Sorry. XD

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