Live Action Mafia

A game of sneakiness and paranoia
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 Post subject: Discussion Day 6
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:38 pm 
Again, I'd like to use 'Shady Contacts' in the next couple days.

Comments or complaints?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:47 pm 
I agree with counting votes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:48 pm 
I meant counting Mafia.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:48 pm 
I think you should do it soon.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:48 pm 
I also think we should have a valid impeachment petition for Daniel. Where can I sign it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:22 pm 
I can't really think of a foolproof way to do this that actually doesn't let the Mafia conscript the mayor, so just circulating the impeachment petition may be the best we can do.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:00 am 
Given the past day with no kill and the [now incorrect] statement in the rules which suggested that daily kills are mutually exclusive with conscription, it is likely that someone has been conscripted. That said, either dgrazien is a really good actor or he hasn't been conscripted... but it never hurts to impeach him and elect me mayor instead.

I'll lower your taxes or something when I'm mayor. Also, I'll make windows on airplanes open so that the oxygen can come in and put out accidental fires.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:09 am 
I think people are still overestimating the threat of conscription. Daniel explained this well in his initial strategy advice.

Daniel Grazian wrote:
A note on conscription:

It is something to keep in the back of your mind, that a person you thought you could trust might be conscripted.

However, in previous games, people have ALWAYS overestimated the threat that a particular person might be conscripted, rather than underestimated it. A first-order approximation of best play would probably ignore conscription entirely, except to add 1 to the mafia count.

Only 1 person will be conscripted out of the 28 starting townspeople. It is unlikely that it will be a particular person you are concerned about.

Even if conscripting a particular person would be really strong for the mafia, they will probably end up conscripting someone else for one reason or another (i.e. that person saw them commit a murder, that person lives in a particular location, that person is a friend of one of the mafia, etc.)

So whenever you are thinking, "I'm nervous about doing something, because X might be conscripted" check yourself. You are likely overestimating damageIfXIsOrWillBeConscripted * Pr(XIsOrWillBeConscripted.)

That said, I'd be for impeaching Daniel and electing someone else. Though I think now is too early to do so.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:20 am 
I don't think Daniel's acting well, actually. I think he's been doing a lot of things arbitrarily or uncarefully where he would normally think a lot more about this. The kill of Matt Susskind was for essentially no reason, just because the entire town followed his random hunch.

Honestly, I think the question of conscription is less important here than the question of whether we should elect dgrazian dictator, which we seem to have done. Dictators are bad, even when they're benevolent.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:30 am 
Benkraft, what would you have done? I think that any (non-mafia-directed) decision would have been largely arbitrary.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:39 am 
I think you could have given more reasoning. You just said "let's lynch X", and everyone said "ok". This is a problem whether or not you were conscripted, because this is not how we should play mafia.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:39 am 
I'm not seeing where Daniel is being a dictator. He chose investigation targets once when in a rush. Is there more?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:50 am 
I've been getting the general vibe. He's been picking investigation targets and lynch targets, and not saying why at the time, or even later unless repeatedly poked. Maybe I'm making this up, but it feels weird to me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:55 am 
For lynch targets, are you talking about MattSusskind? It looks like aok started the mob and Matt was already being considered for lynching the previous day, though Daniel was the one who later pushed for it. So I saw it as one person being mentioned and nobody really caring, not Daniel forcing anything through. Which is not to say players should do that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:35 pm 
Do we have any suspects for lilychen's death?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:00 pm 
...darn, mafia also got a Fake ID didn't they? -.-''

I think the only other Fake ID that belonged to an active player was Jenny Not Jennifer's? (correct me if I'm wrong)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:02 pm 
Unless either player gave their ID away, yes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:22 pm 
Tangentially relevant point of information: Lily came up to Bonfire right after she died and spoiled Eric Mannes (NP). Benkraft and I were on Bonfire at the time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:55 pm 
Ayup, fake id was in my hands, though I gave it away since I wasn't sure about how to use it. I mean, I know how to physically use the thing, I just didn't see any reason to because voting has been pretty cut and dry. ...This is one of those things where I shouldn't reveal who I gave it to so that they don't get shot in the middle of the night, right? Or is there a reason I should tell people who I gave it to?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:56 pm 
benkraft wrote:
I think you could have given more reasoning. You just said "let's lynch X", and everyone said "ok". This is a problem whether or not you were conscripted, because this is not how we should play mafia.


For the record, this IS how I play Mafia...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:31 pm 
There is a reason to tell us who you gave it to. We currently know that Lily's fake id is in the possession of the mafia (fake ids can't be destroyed). So if the police officer (currently me) were to search someone who didn't start with a fake id and find that they have one it would be strong evidence that they are mafia.

On a related note, if anyone offers to give you a fake id please tell the town (whether you take it or not). It's also probably better not to take it, because if that's the general policy then mafia can't claim to have been given the fake id.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:49 pm 
If I do not get tremendous opposition, I am going to count the mafia sometime in the next few days. I'm not going to announce the exact time, so the mafia have to deal with a bit of uncertainty


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:41 pm 
benkraft wrote:
I can't really think of a foolproof way to do this that actually doesn't let the Mafia conscript the mayor, so just circulating the impeachment petition may be the best we can do.


You're not suppose to ever have a foolproof method to stop the mafia. That's part of the point of the game. It's about misdirection, distrust and double-think. I think part of the reason I survived as long as I did as mafia was because I did some very trustworthy things (like getting the Medkit from Kai with dgrazian) early in the game to win allies.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:10 pm 
Sorry for being behind the times, but I'd like to know why mchang02, who is apparently trusted, had made a thread to "Lynch Shi-ke!!!", who is also apparently trusted. This is a problem. Has it been resolved? Is there an explanation? Is this trolling?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:28 pm 
Shi-ke later revealed as investigator and we believe he is telling the truth.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:31 pm 
So do we think mchang02 was just trolling? Should we believe her Ironheart claim?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:02 pm 
So, I'm probably not going to get back online again before 11 PM.

I'm going to vote to lynch aok. Gary and I were very sketched out by how much information he kept bothering people for earlier. At the very least, I want to set up a tie-break for later.

I don't trust kaufmand either, but that can wait.

We should try deciding who to lynch a bit earlier than 10 PM...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:08 pm 
We should figure this out. Gary, who is trustworthy now, said in his poison announcement
Gary wrote:
- aok and kaufmand are a bit sketchy.
- aok has and is trying to get too much information.
I have been told, aok and kaufmand trust each other. Daniel listed them both as trustworthy people.

I understand people want to keep secret information secret, so please use discretion. But trust networks need to be trusted to be effective.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:23 pm 
Liz, you're saying you're sketched out by how much information I was bothering people for, but you've never been in the same room as me during any conversation about mafia. Gary was sketched out because I went to ET, and then was asking about people at ET since they were sort of participating, but I knew nothing about them. David and I have each been investigated and came up not guilty. If you vote to lynch either of us, you're ignoring the evidence.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:36 pm 
I'm not actually for mobbing against aok. I believe people wouldn't trust him without good reason. I would like more discussion about this though.

But, we need to lynch someone today. Suggestions? Arbitrary inactive?

Gary, if you're somehow seeing this, I'll vote for whomever you say.


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