It seems the possibility of a suicide to kill a conscripted mad scientist would be extremely foolish, since a conscripted mad scientist is the most valuable possession the mafia could ever have, and all they need to do to kill the monster is kill the mad scientist later.
Also I feel inclined to reply to people who may be innocent townsfolk so they are not confused, even if they're just shouting dirt at me hoping to get a free lynch:
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Brian Iglesias wrote:
And mats, while you do bring up the possibility that you are mafia in your starting post, you do not then claim that you killed dgrazian..... The simplest answer in this case would be that you are mafia, you killed dgrazian, and by reporting the murder and being so proactive about finding the cause you are aiming to sow confusion and turn the ensuing lynching away from yourself.
I apologize if that was unclear, it was very strongly implied. Anyway, the simplest answer is *not* that -- why would I kill dgrazian and pretend to be innocent? That is the dumbest thing a mafia could ever do. Because even if that was a bid to gain credibility, it wouldn't work because everyone would be super-suspicious -- *like you are all right now*. Why would I do this if I could have gotten away with it scot free??? No one would have known about the murder. People had no reason to suspect me until today. The only reason I actually am actually braindumping the townspeople is because I actually play with a suicidal bent and don't really care if I die, and furthermore -- *as I mentioned hours ago* in my original post -- I needed to alert players asap incase they noticed anything suspicious like others baking cookies with Daniel or coming back into the dorm via either entrance.
Also would I be suggesting dumb things and talking so much? The alternatives tomorrow will be "guy who is suspicious and talked a lot" and "no lynch", and people as a rule don't want to vote no-lynch, this looks *really bad* for me. Talking more right now just makes people think I'm even more of a reasonable vote! The mafia are sitting back and chuckling "haha we get a free lynch today we don't have to worry" the more I say! I may play with some meta, but not THAT much meta.
Actually I won't deny this, this is totally something I would do if I were a
novice mafia, and I am probably ridiculous enough to think of it -- but after past experience and drawing obscene suspicion and getting killed early on for these sorts of things (if you've ever played mafia with me before) has taught me that this kind of stuff will just get me killed early, LIKE IT IS GETTING ME KILLED NOW. Also it would not be *fair* to the other mafia. I have no desire to screw my mafia metagame, and furthermore people know me for someone who is fair in the metagame. o_O Given that Nathan was mafia and we lynched him, I would feel it is my duty to try to succeed, as I love playing the underdog and the players deserve a fair game.
Though I guess I am fine with people voting to kill me anyway, since then I feel good if either townspeople or mafia win. =p I've already dropped enough clues to make the game interesting and winnable.
JB Parkes wrote:
mats_a wrote:
I then abused lack of knowledge and asked JB and Mark if Mafia can suicide, and they both said "not if there's just one mafia".[/b]
I didn't say that. I said "I dunno ask Alex," and pointed to him on the other side of the room. Then JRC commented that it was a stupid thing to do.
I apologize, you did say something different but I may have incorrectly assumed it was the same as what Mark said since oh-god-what-just-happened. PLEASE NOTE that I was
unaware of the full mechanics behind Conscription until I read them at 1:30, so what I originally suggested of a regular "mafia suicide" (which I have also said would be dumb), should not be taken heavily -- admittedly it was JRC's idea.
JB Parkes wrote:
Mark Velednitsky wrote:
Another question: Daniel was a very active player... why didn't he vote yesterday?
He went to the snowball battle @ pika. He got back after midnight with Kate and other NPs.
Daniel seems like the kind of player who would put in his vote early? Alex: is it possible to tell the time a vote was put in? Maybe the Mafia were suspicious he was going to accuse them, so had to kill him early? Eh... there seem to be better opportunities... I'm not sure what to make of this. Yesterday was also a fairly non-fun day and I wouldn't look too much into folks not voting for forgone conclusions.
Mark Velednitsky wrote:
Another thing to consider: this kill might have been executed by a hit man. In fact, that makes the people in Random lounge more suspect (the ones that were there when Dgrazien was leaving)... it's very possible that a mafia member in Random heard Dgrazien would be alone and notified his/her fellow mafia members via the mafia den to execute the kill or to hire someone to do it for them... given the conditions, this should probably be given fair consideration.
I hear Daniel was about to play a game of dominion with JRC and Vinoth(dead) then vanished saying he had to go to Star, and JRC could have texted someone to stalk him, which is why I am slightly suspicious of him. I'm not even sure if there was someone else in that game... because people often play it with 3 players but I only saw 2 people there... I'm not sure if there was a deck where a 3rd person was sitting at, I should have checked. But in fairness to him, he would have no idea that Daniel would have finished after 12pm (unless Daniel bolted out).
Was anyone besides JRC and Vinoth playing Dominion?
Given that I can no longer think of reasons for Daniel to kill himself, I think it's a decent possibility that there was a stalker neither of us noticed. Given that Daniel reported it as 12:01, this makes things even more likely (explaining why we didn't notice anyone behind us, and the late hour). In retrospect, I should have texted someone saying I'm walking back with dgrazian, but I was not expecting anyone else around (maybe they noticed me and hung low).
Maybe someone went to Star with Daniel who I wasn't aware of, but this seems unlikely -- or maybe someone did and they didn't come back with him, but it seems he left in a rush.
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I am slightly annoyed in-character that everyone proceeded to suspect me without looking for anyone returning from Star, thereby making the suspicion I've been laying on myself completely ridiculous.
I should also point out that Jason Chiu also lives nearby -- I would like to know if Jason would recognize dgrazian if he stumbled to him at Star. But this is seem even more of a stretch.
IMPORTANT STUFF:
- I no longer consider a mafia suicide or mad scientist scenario to be a major possibility, unless Daniel was under suspicion.
- At the time I posted this, I considered suicide a major possibility, but it doesn't make sense in the rules -- can anyone think of a valid complicated rules or political reason a suicide would make sense? I guess a stalker is a lot more likely, or Hitman as someone suggests.
- If people lynch me, please pay attention to who votes so my death is not for naught, thanks. Also please don't lynch me without reading everything I've said, thanks.
Why didn't the mafia kill anyone on day 4? It seems likely that Conscription may have been used, since it counts as your kill for the day, or they ran into the Ironheart. Except I think the Ironheart would have known who had tried to kill him. I now feel Conscription is unrelated to any of this, but who knows.
If Daniel was going for a proper mafia suicide, he would have texted someone saying "walking back with Mats, if he someone killed me it was him" before killing himself, making the stalker even more likely. (Darnit I can't notice anything. -_-) Though as I said, Daniel did once, in another game, make a misplay of doing something very complicated. That was the main reason I announced so quickly to everyone, as I suspected it was a suicide. But in retrospect if he really wanted to put the blame on me, he would have texted someone, not shot himself until he saw me, and hung around until someone asked anything about mafia.
Also why would I attempt to kill dgrazian at 12:01 impromptu-ly without discussing with mafia? Maybe if he puts his vote in early or was suspecting me, but that seems a bit drastic. And he rushed out so fast. And since he's in Random, the mafia would have had tons of opportunity to kill him.
In fact, I have given Daniel no reason not to trust me, since I almost revealed an important piece of information to him yesterday, but thought better of it and wanted to ask people if he was trustworthy. In retrospect, that was fairly suspicious of being innocent.
The most likely scenario I thought of at the time, and the reason I'm revealing this all, is that Daniel had *some reason* to kill himself and was trying to implicate me by walking back with me, and this was a complicated play that failed because I ran away in case he was mafia and he shot himself before I escaped. In retrospect that was a horrible reason to reveal this all... wow what was I thinking... But anyway, the stalker seems more likely, and the folks who were playing boardgames (Mark, JB, Nathan, another, maybe jordango -- plus the folks who were playing Dominion such as Vinoth and JRC -- should say if anyone else was playing dominion)
Random other bits of info:
The store had closed and we were practically the last people to leave. It is possible that he was lynched slightly before then, in which case who knows, but I remember looking at my watch and the time said 12:00 and by the time I made it to the counter I think it was 12:01-12:02. The person has just announced "Star Market is now closed. Please come up to the counter if you have anything" and I was in line within about 20sec.
Wow, this was terrible ranty, sorry, my batteries are about to die and I felt I had to reply to accusations.