Live Action Mafia

A game of sneakiness and paranoia
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 Post subject: Discussion: Day 6
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:50 am 
Hey guys, I just want to start today's discussion by pointing out that I saw certain individuals around the scene of the crime. Given that I believe that these people where legitimately investigating, I will not reveal them at this time. However, if there is another failure with the investigation mechanic, or have significant reason to fear for my life, I will reveal at that time to root out the mole.

Sleep well,
Enrique


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:16 am 
Josh Frisch wrote:
Given his investigator's (near certain) failure I propose that we lynch both Dgrazian and whomever he claims his investigator to be. In the mean time, I think it is necessary to get a new mayor. I would nominate myself, but understand people's possible desire for a different candidate.


(Condensing the two topics into one thread)

There is also the distinct possibility that Frame an Innocent was used on last night's murder. Dgrazian's investigator being a fake is not the only possibility. I would expect you to realize this, Enrique, which makes me suspicious considering that you didn't even mention the possibility in your post. The list of people who were playing both B5 and mafia, as far as I know, is alcor, Tom, and you (Enrique). I think the more likely scenario is that you killed alcor and used Frame an Innocent to cover it up, which worked in the short term, but now I'm more convinced than ever that you're a sketchy mafia f***er.

This also addresses Jfrisch's point. The investigator being fake is in no way certain, and lynching an Investigator for getting a positive on a now-confirmed innocent when it was mentioned before the lynch (during discussions at Random, sorry) that this would be a good kill to use Frame an Innocent on is just dumb.

My 2 cents for the day. I'm going to be in a GM meeting for an Assassin's Guild game that's running in two weeks for the rest of the day (likely til midnight, unless we run out of steam before then), and so will probably be lurking the forums, but not posting much unless absolutely necessary.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:45 pm 
Krueger, I do not need to be lectured on the rules. I do know that a frame the innocent is in play. This is why I have stated that I believe that the people I saw were the actual investigators. This is a small peice of information that you could have seen if you actually read my post instead of indiscriminately attacking my character, especially since you were seen by numerous guild people leaving quickly around the scene of the crime to a guild game you as you say have no part of.

That is all.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:52 pm 
As for Daniel as mayor, I believe that is and continues to act in good faith. It is much more likely that Tom was framed. We should not lynch him, although at some point as a matter of due process, we should cycle the mayors.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:10 pm 
Sorry I'm being brain dead and confusing which post I was replying to. I didn't get much sleep last night and had just woken up when I wrote that. I'll try to restate my opinions in a way that makes sense now that I'm more awake-ish. I will admit, I am not the best logic-brain, and as such my arguments are not as polished as Enrique's, however I will try to make them as sensical as possible.

krue wrote:
There is also the distinct possibility that Frame an Innocent was used on last night's murder. Dgrazian's investigator being a fake is not the only possibility. I would expect you to realize this, Enrique, which makes me suspicious considering that you didn't even mention the possibility in your post.

...I'm staring at this and not remembering why the hell I wrote it. I think I might've been mixing up Enrique's and Jfrisch's posts. Ignore this. Sorry for being a derp.

krue wrote:
The list of people who were playing both B5 and mafia, as far as I know, is alcor, Tom, and you (Enrique). I think the more likely scenario is that you killed alcor and used Frame an Innocent to cover it up

This was more my main argument. As far as I know, the only people playing B5 who are also in mafia are alcor, Tom, and Enrique. Since Tom was a Saint and alcor was murdered...well, the most obvious possibility is that Enrique killed alcor and used Frame an Innocent to blame Tom. This is the main reason I suspect him, not because I am "indiscriminately attacking [his] character".

There are other reasons as well, but these are better told by people who are logic-brains and actually enjoy heated debates rather than getting worked up about them, so I will leave the people I was discussing these reasons with to bring those points up.


Another thing:
Enrique wrote:
you were seen by numerous guild people leaving quickly around the scene of the crime to a guild game you as you say have no part of

I will admit to being at the Guild game for some period of time within an hour after the murder occurred. I was derping around on my computer for a large portion of the day, so I noticed shortly after it was posted that there had been a murder (yay, email alerts when the forum updates). Yes, I went to the murder site. This is a thing that I do on a regular basis in Live Action Mafia, regardless of whether I'm the investigator. The more people who visit the murder site soon after the murder, the less likely it is for the mafia to figure out who the actual investigator is. This is a strategy I've employed in previous games, and one which I've discussed with a number of other players privately this game, and I know at least a couple of them confirmed that they went to the site of the murder at some point after the murder occurred, so you apparently weren't paying as close attention as you thought if you only saw one set of people walk through.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:26 pm 
I'm very surprised Daniel has still not replied about the fact that he got Tom, the Saint, lynched for killing Alcor with the result he claimed he got from the investigator. Nor has Daniel replied to my private messages. Daniel is not in B5, so I don't know what's keeping him.

We don't know whether Daniel was lying or his claimed investigator was lying. It's also possible that Tom was conscripted, or that Frame an Innocent was used.

If Daniel was duped by a fake claim, why has he still not disclosed who this fake investigator is? Their is no point hiding their identity, since we cannot trust their investigations even if that investigator just got unlucky.

I'm really uncomfortable about Daniel. We need to impeach him as Mayor ASAP and elect a new one. I would be for Josh being Mayor, though would be OK with anyone as long as they can get elected fast.

Regardless of whom you want as the new Mayor, you need to sign a petition to impeach Daniel. Until then, no new Mayor can be elected. It doesn't have to be one petition to impeach -- everyone can sign their own piece of paper, then we can combine them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:51 pm 
Mafia Mayorship: "Here today, gun tomorrow."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:56 pm 
For reference, Daniel is at a chess tournament today and will not be back online until after 8pm or so. Several Randomites stayed up discussing mafia until really late, and he said he wanted to san-check his logic while not sleep-depped before posting anything. He must not have had time to do so in the morning before the tournament.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:15 pm 
Krue, I did not say that I only saw you. I'm hiding the identity of the proposed investigators I saw. That is most important. However, it is not most likely that I am the one who commuted the murder. First, everyone our circle knew that we'd all be here. Not just those playng the game. Second, Tom, Alcor, and I all agreed to a truce for the duration of the game. It makes no sence to play an intensive game and to play both would cause meta interactions that would counter the guild spirit. Lastly, it would simply be a bad move on my part because it is both expensive and stupid. Not only would I waste a power but it still wouldn't get me of the hook. A bad play in my book.

-Enrique


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:20 pm 
I've been at a chess tournament all day without any internet access (I left at 9:00 a.m. and I just got back half an hour ago.)

We were discussing what happened with Tom extensively at Random, but nobody actually posted on the forum. Sorry about that. Obviously Tom was a saint. I think it is most likely that Frame an Innocent was used, though it is also possible that my investigator is bogus. I really doubt that, though, because I've been in contact with him/her since day 1, nobody else has claimed investigator, and it would be an enormous gamble for the mafia to report a false positive this early in the game. This issue can be cleared up if another investigator investigates alcor's death. I'm beginning to suspect the other is dead, though, because there has been no sign of another investigator in this game.

Forgetting to use Assign Bodyguards was just an error on my part. I got out of the shower a few minutes past midnight and had forgotten to use the protection power before that. Sorry!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:53 pm 
@Enrique: To be clear, when you say you saw people near the crime scene, you mean after the murder was announced, right? As opposed to, around the time of the kill.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:36 pm 
Of all the people in game, I am still most suspicious of Enrique. Unless someone manages to convince me otherwise (and I'm on the forums, so if you're having in person discussion, I'm not going to hear it) I'm going to vote for him. Come on guys, we have an hour and a half til midnight. People should start talking about things sooner rather than later.

Also, since Enrique mentioned I was at the scene and Alex is likely to ask (and I might not be paying enough attention to answer because GM meeting), I was taking a shower at the time the murder occurred. A number of people on Black Hole can confirm this, and my hair was obviously wet all evening, in case anyone who was around was paying attention.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:47 pm 
Regardless of the whom we lynch today, I believe we should impeach Daniel and elect a new Mayor ASAP.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:50 pm 
The apparent contradiction in the claims of krue and Enrique deserves attention.

Enrique, Krue: At what times are you saying Krue was at the crime scene? Krue, when were you showering, and when can people confirm?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:01 pm 
Something like 8:30, 8:40ish? Ami saw me coming out of the shower and asked me whether there was still hot water left. I texted Dalton at 8:51pm to see if he was around/had heard about the murder, since he's one of the people in mafia who is frequently around and not busy and I wanted to get more people going over to the murder site. We met up and headed over to look around at 9-9:10ish. I ran into Daniel Gray and Fluffy at the base of the Random Hall stairwell just before heading out, if you want more witnesses.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:04 pm 
I have been talking to Daniel and Josh about who to lynch tonight, and we have decided that we want to lynch Enrique for the following reasons:

1) He is the only B5 player in live action mafia other than Tom and Alcor. If Enrique killed Alcor, then he would frame Tom, since Enrique and Tom are the two main suspects for the murder. Unluckily for Enrique, we know that Tom is a saint and almost certainly did not kill anyone.
2) He claimed to be scouting the murder site to see who the investigators were. This is not a good idea for town, but it is a good idea for mafia.
3) He knew about the murder within 45 minutes of it being posted while playing a guild game.
4) He told a large number of people that he was ironheart on day 1 and went off alone with most of Random. If the mafia conscripted on day 1, they conscripted Enrique.
5) He was demanding that Daniel tell him who his investigator is while requesting that Daniel not talk to the investigator first.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:09 pm 
Dalton Allan wrote:
4) He told a large number of people that he was ironheart on day 1 and went off alone with most of Random. If the mafia conscripted on day 1, they conscripted Enrique.
Whaah? This is really really weird. And sketchy. Could everyone who witnessed this please confirm?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:10 pm 
confirm.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:12 pm 
Confirm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:16 pm 
I have a question: Given the Enrique did this really sketchy thing on Day 1 (announcing Ironheart) that many people were aware of why was this not mentioned in any of the many discussions about lynching Enrique? Or did I just miss it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:19 pm 
We were keeping it secret because we didn't want to reveal to the mafia that he was ironheart. That was the reason that a large number of people suddenly decided to not lynch him.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:19 pm 
He definitely told Josh, Dalton, myself, and Alcor. I do not know whether he told anybody else.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:21 pm 
in particular, upon telling alcor, she agreed to not kill him that night. He also was telling with some realistic chance of a hit against him, which made it seem slightly less sketch.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:23 pm 
When did Enrique claim Ironheart? Was it before or after the accusations against him? Alcor, did you believe his claim?

Enrique, you need to explain to have a chance of not being lynched.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:24 pm 
Also, krue, have you heard before this about Enrique claiming ironheart?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:25 pm 
Daniel, what are you doing? I think it's to soon to toss me under the bus. I can still do this. Just give me some support.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:26 pm 
Ignore Enrique's accusations for now and lynch him tonight.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:29 pm 
Enrique, are you Ironheart?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:32 pm 
I claimed ironheart the first day to to Dalton, Josh, Daniel, and Alcor. I could not have possibly been conscripted because I was at work the first day and only had enough time to set up a committee plot to save me which you were a part of Alex. There was little time to do otherwise.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:32 pm 
(enrique is playing guild game - i told him people were asking him to come answer questions. he said he'd come soon)

(i am ghosting game)


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