Live Action Mafia

A game of sneakiness and paranoia
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 Post subject: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:08 pm 
Considering the message they just sent, good idea to include them in our subforum?


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:13 pm 
Yeah I agree with this.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:16 pm 
I would be happy with that.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:55 am 
Yes
They are an anonymous account held by one of us, right?


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:33 am 
Aok, we would like to give Russian spy#3 access to this forum.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:14 am 
I gave it to them last night.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:51 pm 
Can someone confirm whether our double agent is still alive? There were a lot of kills made today.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:36 pm 
I know identity of all Chinese spies. I do not want to tell you all, because Chinese double agent does not know who the Chinese are. Russian double agent is still alive.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:42 pm 
Users QWERTYUIOP and ThePeoplesRepublic both the sending information about us to Chinese. Maybe they are same person.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:56 pm 
I think it important that we know who the Chinese are. As it stands, if our double agent dies (and RUSSIAN_SPY_#3 either doesn't know who the Chinese are or is actually the Chinese double agent), then we have probably lost the entire game. At the very least, we will have lost the ability to control the outcome of the game at all, because if the remaining Chinese die, it will be due to random luck. Additionally, it means that many of our items and powers are less useful.

For example:
shovel - might be wasted on a dead Chinese spy
investigations - might be wasted on Chinese spies, which makes it harder for us to find mafia/rogues
magic stone - the standard use seems to be alignment-only shovel or an investigation, so this can be similarly wasted

Yes, the Chinese double agent might also waste a power or item, but there will be an expected 1/3 the amount of wasting. On the other hand, the Chinese spies are NOT wasting these abilities through using them on us, and though our double agent won't be either, there is 1/3 as much non-wasting going on for our end.

Additionally, there are a lot of other players going around looking for alliances, sometimes in person. It would be nice to not accidentally make an alliance with / reveal information to a Chinese spy.

But most importantly, are you actually sure that the Chinese double agent doesn't know who the Chinese spies are? If one of the Chinese did reveal the true identities to the double agent, they wouldn't need to tell the other Chinese that they had done so, and we certainly wouldn't have any way to find out. If QWERTYUIOP and ThePeoplesRepublic are just the same person, she might even be trying different techniques for getting information and seeing if stories match, possibly seeing who is willing to tell her the Chinese spies and who isn't. Even if the Chinese double agent doesn't know now, she could be told at any time, without us or the Russian double agent knowing.

I think it's absolutely ludicrous for us to not know who the Chinese are.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:08 pm 
I'm not sure I agree...

If RUSSIAN_SPY_#3 knows who the chinese are, then they can say it in their deadman switch document, so we will know if they die. If they are the the chinese double agent, it's useless to ask for the info because they will probably lie regardless.

RUSSIAN_SPY_#3 should maybe instead just tell us as soon as a death is a death of a Chinese. And if we have killing power, we could ask RUSISAN_SPY_#3 whether it's good to kill that person. If that person is a chinese spy, RS3 says "yes", if that person is the russian double, RS3 says "no", otherwise RS3 responds randomly.

If we can communicate directly with our spy, and the chinese can't do that, I think we have an advantage and it's not clear we should give that up.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:11 pm 
Sammyluo just died, was Chinese spy.
Russian double agent told me not to say who the Chinese are yet, so I won't say without Russian double agent's permission.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:41 pm 
I guess deadman switches would prevent us from totally losing if our double agent dies. However, it seems better for it to be the double agent's deadman switch, rather than just RUSSIAN_SPY_#3's. So, RUSSIAN_SPY_#3, make sure the double agent has a thorough deadman switch in place!

However, if RUSSIAN_SPY_#3 even if is the Chinese double agent, then they can't quite lie (right now), because it would be easy to get disproved, and thus outed as the double agent. So it's not useless.

Having RUSSIAN_SPY_#3 report deaths of Chinese spies would be good, but that doesn't solve the investigation / magic stone issue. It also doesn't do anything about the issue of the Chinese double agent just knowing already.

I don't think being able to ask if a person to be killed is the double agent or not is a good idea. If the Chinese double agent does this, then they've just figured out who the Russian double agent is. They don't even need any actual killing power to get this info either.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:42 pm 
Oh, cool. That means we got an actual Chinese spy dead! Yay!


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:45 pm 
If RS3 tells us who the chinese are, then we don't know whether to kill or protect those people. So we would have to ask, is it OK to kill X? and then the chinese double can use that info to find the russian double. The fuzzing caused by us not knowing whether RS3 answered randomly keeps the chinese double from finding the russian double, given the chinese double doesn't know who the chinese are.

also why would it be easy to disprove if the chinese double lied about who the chinese are?


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:34 pm 
Yes, but I don't know why we're assuming the Chinese double doesn't know who the Chinese are. Why on earth wouldn't a Chinese spy just tell them? ANY CHINESE SPY COULD DO THIS, WITHOUT THE RUSSIAN DOUBLE AGENT KNOWING!!!

If the Chinese double is RUSSIAN_SPY_#3 and lies, then we can check with the Chinese double agent. Or, we could use the shovel/magic stone to check someone they claimed to be a Chinese double agent when they die.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:38 pm 
Maybe they haven't told yet because they think one of qwerty and TPR is a fake, and they don't want the fake to know.
I guess in that case it does make more sense for them to tell us all who the chinese are.

What do you mean by checking with the chinese double agent whether RS3 lied?


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:59 pm 
Well, RUSSIAN_SPY_#3 is one of us, and [person with weird name in Russian] is the double agent, right? So we could just pm them directly. Or they could get information to us otherwise.

If the Chinese are so concerned about a fake double agent knowing that they won't tell the real one, then surely that means that we SHOULD all learn who the Chinese are, right? Because that means the Chinese really don't want us to know.

On the other hand, if the Chinese aren't concerned about a fake, and it's more important for them that their double agent does know, then they would have just told both qwerty and TPR, right? And so that would mean the Chinese double agent already knows, so there is no point to us not knowing.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:05 pm 
Then how do we figure out whether we should kill or not kill a particular chinese? If we know all of them then what can we do with that without knowing which one is the russian double


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:41 pm 
Yes, we can't do anything with that. But as far as I know, we don't have access to killing abilities, so we might as well not have the Chinese double agent not know who the Russian double agent is either.

Also, whether or not the double agent should answer "who can we kill questions" is something I care less about than us knowing who the Chinese are.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:47 pm 
We have 2 desperados who can kill once each. At this point that is enough to kill the remaining chinese, though we should probably save it till game has a good chance of ending before they both die


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 Post subject: Re: RUSSIAN_SPY_#3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:00 am 
Chinese are currently spending much effort on finding who is the Chinese double agent. For this reason I would like to not make their lives easier at this time.


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