Live Action Mafia

A game of sneakiness and paranoia
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:01 am 
For your amusement. I decided there wasn't that much to gain from continuing this, and also maxmurin blew my cover in town square, so I stopped.

aok:
hey sammy
i'm about to claim to be gay knights with you
i hope you're mafia

me:
how do I know you're actually SK?

aok:
no way of knowing
at this point if I were town I would be telling other townies that your responses indicate that you're mafia-ish
maybe you're town and you've already told other townies that I'm messaging you
I think claiming gay knight is pretty reasonable play for mafia
in a high gay knight game

me:
[shrug] go for it

aok:
I do show up positive for the kill, of course
I'm worried at this point that I might drag you down with me
I could claim mafia used a frame power
I could pull it off
maybe

me:
eh

aok:
should I fake claim gay knight now?
Quickly, please

me:
I think the situation is kind of hopeless
claim and I'll deny it and create some amusement?
like, it's pretty clear it was an SK kill, so frame is unlikely
yeah just go for it, have some fun

aok:
I think if you defend me I'll survive

me:
eh, too late

aok:
80% sure

me:
sorry, I thought it was too risky

aok:
Fair enough
I know nothing of value
Consider proxying priests
Fake proxying priests
Don't be scared to fake claim gay knights in the future

me:
thanks
RIP

aok:
Not enough people changed votes, probably

me:
nice


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:02 am 
(All of the above was written by Sammy and PMed to Gods. We are very amused.)

--jamb


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:46 pm 
More from sammyluo:


Also, I just realized that mafia has 3 uses of frame (?!!!), which is kinda maybe yeah way OP

with ajliu I wrote:
Amanda Liu

Yo

Do you have a summary of game so far
Sammy Luo
3:21pm
Sammy Luo

Sure, I can summarize to you in person in a bit
Amanda Liu
3:22pm
Amanda Liu

Im on beast kitchwn lounge

Btw

I'm angela

And I've been inactive

So welp

Direct me
Sammy Luo
3:27pm
Sammy Luo

Rip

Did you reveal to Ksedlar?
Amanda Liu
3:28pm
Amanda Liu

No i was out of town
Sammy Luo
3:29pm
Sammy Luo

Oh darn

Did you not stalk anyone?
Amanda Liu
3:30pm
Amanda Liu

I only stalked fmajluf on day 1

Srz

Who do you think i should stalk tmrw

From brief perusal of fora, i want lucy
Sammy Luo
3:30pm
Sammy Luo

Uh

Idk

We'll discuss stalking today

Wait this is bad
Amanda Liu
3:30pm
Amanda Liu

Ya
Sammy Luo
3:31pm
Sammy Luo

I need to convey to gcsn that Angela exists

Without giving away who it is
Amanda Liu
3:31pm
Amanda Liu

Yes

Yes
Sammy Luo
3:32pm
Sammy Luo

Two yeses?
Amanda Liu
3:45pm
Amanda Liu

To each of those msgs
Sammy Luo
3:46pm
Sammy Luo

How do I do this?

How about I post on the gcsn communication thread

"Breaking news: Angela is alive and well. I do not confirm or deny that I got this info from the gcsn. If so, I am still awaiting other information on stalker reporting. If not, gcsn should take this announcement into account.

Wait this is bad because you're the only one who didn't act.
Amanda Liu
4:05pm
Amanda Liu

Ok at this point its obv its me
Sammy Luo
4:06pm
Sammy Luo

Uh or that it's dead

Don't panic
Amanda Liu
4:07pm
Amanda Liu

Uh

Well

Like

It's known i was outta town and that i'd confide in you
Sammy Luo
4:07pm
Sammy Luo

True
Amanda Liu
4:07pm
Amanda Liu

So like

Might as well use me as bait

And give me a medkit or something
Sammy Luo
4:08pm
Sammy Luo

No
Amanda Liu
4:08pm
Amanda Liu

Does that work for set a trap
Sammy Luo
4:08pm
Sammy Luo

Medkits don't exist.. M
Amanda Liu
4:08pm
Amanda Liu

Rip

How about

You get me in touch with someone you think ksedlar trusts

Is that too risky

Or i can just act alone...
Sammy Luo
4:10pm
Sammy Luo

Um

Don't do anything rash

I'll get in touch with whoever the gcsn uses to proxy

I don't think the conclusions change much

Either way almost certainly one of the other three stalkers is mafia

Should I post saying "also, gcsn, I have info I need to tell you"

Or is that too obvious?


with maxmurin I wrote:
Sammy Luo

Wow a mysterious group investigator tongue emoticon
Max Murin
3:51pm
Max Murin

>.>
Sammy Luo
3:52pm
Sammy Luo

Shh

You should've asked me to proxy. I have a large proxy network set up.
Max Murin
3:53pm
Max Murin

how often do people "proxy" for themselves anyway
Sammy Luo
3:53pm
Sammy Luo

It's not uncommon

But a lot less common than the alternative

You should have me proxy from now on

If I remain alive

You could make it seem like a priest trigger

Without saying anything else publicly
Max Murin
3:55pm
Max Murin

this seems unlikely to work
Sammy Luo
3:55pm
Sammy Luo

What do you mean?
Max Murin
3:56pm
Max Murin

since the people on my sinners list wouldhave just happened to be the six people with the sketchiest alibis afterward
Sammy Luo
3:56pm
Sammy Luo

Oh yeah

Sorry

I'm dumb

Ok, idk
Max Murin
3:56pm
Max Murin

also "don't choose people who volunteer themselves to proxy"
Sammy Luo
3:57pm
Sammy Luo

Also uh

True
Sammy Luo
3:57pm
Sammy Luo
Sammy Luo
3:57pm
Sammy Luo

Unless they already know your role
Max Murin
3:57pm
Max Murin

except you already know my role so it doesn't really matter

yeah
Sammy Luo
3:57pm
Sammy Luo
Sammy Luo
3:58pm
Sammy Luo

Ok just don't die like emoticon
Max Murin
3:58pm
Max Murin

ok

wait what is a proxy network
Sammy Luo
3:59pm
Sammy Luo

I've claimed an investigative role to n people and am ready to distribute investigation results among all of them
Max Murin
3:59pm
Max Murin

oh man
Sammy Luo
3:59pm
Sammy Luo

Yeah
Max Murin
3:59pm
Max Murin

that's pretty classy

i think my second choice of proxy was to claim that another person had sent a decrementing message a la Jakob in the mystery mafia game
Sammy Luo
4:01pm
Sammy Luo

Meh

Tsims feels kind of sketchy
Max Murin
4:03pm
Max Murin

why?
Sammy Luo
4:04pm
Sammy Luo

Bad math

Anxiety
Max Murin
4:04pm
Max Murin

do you think it's purposefully bad math?
Sammy Luo
4:04pm
Sammy Luo

Unclear

I asked if he thought Jakob was sketchy

He said "not especially, I'd give him 65% being town"
Max Murin
4:05pm
Max Murin

hm
Sammy Luo
4:05pm
Sammy Luo

I.e. more than twice as sketchy as average squint emoticon
Max Murin
4:06pm
Max Murin

that's pretty funny actually

more BADMATH

how likely is it that the killer at the party used a frame on someone else at the party?

if so, it's possible that the total investigation hits both
Sammy Luo
4:12pm
Sammy Luo

It's possible
Max Murin
4:14pm
Max Murin

is it worth noting on the fora and/or worrying about
Sammy Luo
4:16pm
Sammy Luo

I'll post in a bit
Max Murin
4:16pm
Max Murin

thanks
Sammy Luo
4:25pm
Sammy Luo

oh, I just realized that mafia had 3 uses of frame, and this is... pretty OP.
Max Murin
4:26pm
Max Murin

three?!?!

oh shit

that makes this scenario actually worth worrying about then

how many MTPs?
Sammy Luo
4:27pm
Sammy Luo

1
Max Murin
4:27pm
Max Murin

well at least that's reasonable

_________________
...But then again, I'm a near-rookie, so I'm provably wrong ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:07 pm 
Sammy to nastya:
--------------
Seemingly against my own advice, I'm going to give you this list (to compare with your own thoughts on who to investigate). You should, of course, definitely decide on your own.

In order from most to least likely, among the six "guilty"s:

1) tsims (acted anxious after the group investigation, also used unreliable NP Shi-ke as an alibi)

2) jakob (reported present in the kitchen and suspicious by csvoss)

3) Alex (no posted alibi so far, known to be at the party)

4) csvoss (specifically present in the kitchen)

5) isaacg (claims to have been in the lounge with other players probably, relatively trusted for other reasons)

6) Lucy (stalked, stalker seems at least as convincing as the others, claims to have been in the lounge with other player(s) probably)

EDIT: Actually, switch tsims and jakob on there.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:14 pm 
sammyluo and fmajluf7's conversation:

fmajluf7 wrote:
Hi sammy,

I was sent by the network to communicate with you as their proxy. Message:

To answer your question, Angela was the only one to not reveal. What information do you have?

Francesca
sammyluo wrote:
Someone has revealed to me as Angela, with a credible reason for not having revealed and not having stalked on days 2 and 3. Shall I pass you the identity of this person?

Given the existence of 4 stalkers, I strongly suspect one of them is mafia, so it's good that you know all 4.
fmajluf7 wrote:
The gcn say yes, please.
sammyluo wrote:
Wow, you have sufficiently good signal to get round trip communication with the gcn within 3 minutes? :P

Uhh, I'd like some greater degree of confirmation to know this is safe, though I'm not sure how. fmajluf7 is kind of a likely conscription target, and I'm worried about a breach of security here.
fmajluf7 wrote:
What sort of confirmation would you like?

I was given full power to make decisions because they are all busy. This is more of a reply to sammy first, tell them after.
sammyluo wrote:
OK, that makes sense (but is kind of sketchy/dangerous).

I'm not sure how I could get confirmation. Can you provide me with a bit indicating whether my role is one of the ones known to the GCSN? (1 if "yes," 0 if "no," else say "I don't know")
fmajluf7 wrote:
Yes.
sammyluo wrote:
Wow, some proxy ;)

OK, the person is ajliu. She was out of town and claims she didn't check fora. I find this believable.
sammyluo wrote:
Also, you might as well use me as your proxy to the public, to reduce exposure, I guess?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:02 pm 
I really love Sammy's entire set of interactions here. Nothing slips by him. Mafia need to do something about him fast. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:06 pm 
++

Sammy, you are the best - thank you so much for sharing this popcorn with us. So far you have been the most consistent player about cc:ing us or forwarding to us :)

--jamb


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:10 am 
Sammy Luo

I think that either you're actually part of the network itself, or really strange and sketchy things are going on.
Franchi Majluf
9:19pm
Franchi Majluf

Read my pm and tell me the answer fast.

No comment.

You are also a tad sketchy
Sammy Luo
9:20pm
Sammy Luo

Interesting

Um, 1 per stalker

Why am I a tad sketchy?

(I thought things felt sketchy because you told me something as "Gcn says this" and then retracted to say that they had given you "full authority to make decisions"; also, you claimed to know my role)
Franchi Majluf
9:24pm
Franchi Majluf

Because of all the questions you ask. I guess you can also be just super careful. I was trying to confuse you as to whether I am part of the network or not.
Sammy Luo
9:33pm
Sammy Luo

Sure. I mean, you are a relatively likely conscription target
Franchi Majluf
9:33pm
Franchi Majluf

Well, I wasn't. Do you really think there wouldn't be any other kills if I had compromised the network?
Sammy Luo
9:34pm
Sammy Luo

Haha good point like emoticon
Franchi Majluf
9:35pm
Franchi Majluf

Also tsims is the lynch target the network establishes, and ajliu has to stalk dgrazian.

We are still deciding on the other 3.

I mean they, oops lol
Sammy Luo
9:36pm
Sammy Luo
Sammy Luo
9:41pm
Sammy Luo

Should I announce now?
Franchi Majluf
9:42pm
Franchi Majluf

Yes please
Sammy Luo
9:48pm
Sammy Luo

Done

I pmed Amanda her stalk
Franchi Majluf
9:48pm
Franchi Majluf

Cool
Franchi Majluf
9:57pm
Franchi Majluf

Yuno has to stalk jakob (hehehe), Raye penbar has to stalk Lucy. Angela has to stalk dgrazian. Still deciding on Jack.

Message to town: tsims is still worth investigating
Sammy Luo
10:02pm
Sammy Luo

I'm confused about ltchin making a regular investigation and then a group one
Franchi Majluf
10:17pm
Franchi Majluf

Okay, Jack is to stalk nastya. Post stalker results now.
Sammy Luo
10:21pm
Sammy Luo

Ok
Franchi Majluf
10:21pm
Franchi Majluf

Also

Tsims role reveal

Should
Sammy Luo
10:23pm
Sammy Luo

He's a vigilante

He claims

Actually, we could have him make a kill?
Franchi Majluf
10:25pm
Franchi Majluf

Too easy to fake as mafia.. Let's see what everyone else says.
Sammy Luo
10:27pm
Sammy Luo

No, he can't make another kill if he's mafia

And doesn't have traps set
Franchi Majluf
10:28pm
Franchi Majluf

Scheme
Sammy Luo
10:28pm
Sammy Luo

Make him kill someone else sketchy?

Scheme has to be person who hasn't killed today

So pick him a target

Quickly

Let me know you're discussing it, please?
Franchi Majluf
10:34pm
Franchi Majluf

Yes

We are
Sammy Luo
10:34pm
Sammy Luo

Cool
Franchi Majluf
10:37pm
Franchi Majluf

We decided to still lynch him.

No kill.
Sammy Luo
10:37pm
Sammy Luo

Why?

That seems strange
Franchi Majluf
10:38pm
Franchi Majluf

Because there's no time to have more useful role claims

More than one person believes vigilante is not as useful
Sammy Luo
10:38pm
Sammy Luo

But if he makes a kill

We have an hour to decide

And we prove his innocence

And thus know someone else is guilty

He suggested jessk as someone sketchy

What are you guys doing?
Franchi Majluf
10:40pm
Franchi Majluf

I'm telling them what you just said

They really want him lynched.
Sammy Luo
10:40pm
Sammy Luo

That's stupid

You can have him lynched after he fails to make a vig kill
Franchi Majluf
10:41pm
Franchi Majluf

I told them.

Also, not jessk
Sammy Luo
10:41pm
Sammy Luo

Ok
Franchi Majluf
10:41pm
Franchi Majluf

If he sees jakob, sure, but not jessk

Yet this is not the official ruling
Sammy Luo
10:41pm
Sammy Luo

Wait, you want him to vig kill Jakob?

I. E. Kmli?
Franchi Majluf
10:42pm
Franchi Majluf

But this is me only

Lol
Sammy Luo
10:42pm
Sammy Luo

Ok

Wow is bureaucracy always so slow
Franchi Majluf
10:44pm
Franchi Majluf

People are not replying to me. There's a divide, but the clear majority before was no kill, lynch tsims
Sammy Luo
10:45pm
Sammy Luo

But this is really stupid

How do you have enough ICS to have a divide??

Should I let town decide?

Idk

Tell me something
Franchi Majluf
10:47pm
Franchi Majluf

Er

They are not replying

Yes, we have a good number
Sammy Luo
10:47pm
Sammy Luo

You gave them my reasoning, right?
Franchi Majluf
10:47pm
Franchi Majluf

Of both ics and gk

Yes
Sammy Luo
10:47pm
Sammy Luo

?
Franchi Majluf
10:47pm
Franchi Majluf

Children and gay knights
Sammy Luo
10:48pm
Sammy Luo

Ok, do you think it makes sense for him to vig kill?
Franchi Majluf
10:48pm
Franchi Majluf

I think at this point in the night it's worth a try, but I am not allowed to oppose other gcs

Like
Sammy Luo
10:48pm
Sammy Luo

Ok
Franchi Majluf
10:48pm
Franchi Majluf

To give an order
Sammy Luo
10:48pm
Sammy Luo

I'm going to have him do it

Ok?
Franchi Majluf
10:49pm
Franchi Majluf

Wait they replied
Sammy Luo
10:49pm
Sammy Luo

Ok

Did you even check your ICS and guns?

Quick!
Franchi Majluf
10:50pm
Franchi Majluf

They say tell him to kill jakob.
Sammy Luo
10:57pm
Sammy Luo

Done
Franchi Majluf
10:58pm
Franchi Majluf

Well shot

Shit*

Can we shovel jakob?
Sammy Luo
10:58pm
Sammy Luo

Uh, tsims will know if he's town
Franchi Majluf
10:58pm
Franchi Majluf

Unless he's mafia.
Sammy Luo
10:58pm
Sammy Luo

True

Ok, if you want
Franchi Majluf
10:59pm
Franchi Majluf

If they guessed jakob's or lilychen role yesterday, this is totally an option.
Sammy Luo
10:59pm
Sammy Luo

True

Also, I know Lucy didn't kill anyone, so either Isaac did or it's a frame?
Franchi Majluf
11:02pm
Franchi Majluf

Or fudge investigator. Isaacg didn't do it.
Sammy Luo
11:02pm
Sammy Luo

Ok
Franchi Majluf
11:02pm
Franchi Majluf

I highly suspect tsims did it.
Sammy Luo
11:02pm
Sammy Luo

So now chase ltchin's investigation chain?
Franchi Majluf
11:02pm
Franchi Majluf

And dgrazian is mafia.
Sammy Luo
11:03pm
Sammy Luo

Hmm

Ok
Franchi Majluf
11:03pm
Franchi Majluf

Yess
Sammy Luo
11:03pm
Sammy Luo

Tsims says Jakob is mafia
Franchi Majluf
11:03pm
Franchi Majluf

SUCCESS

Unless hes lying

But like, yaya
Sammy Luo
11:03pm
Sammy Luo

Right
Franchi Majluf
11:03pm
Franchi Majluf

If hes not

I say we still lynch tsims..
Sammy Luo
11:04pm
Sammy Luo

Should we shovel Jakob?
Franchi Majluf
11:04pm
Franchi Majluf

Do you have one? Don't make it public.
Sammy Luo
11:04pm
Sammy Luo

Not me

I can ask Andy
Franchi Majluf
11:04pm
Franchi Majluf

Do you trust him..?
Sammy Luo
11:04pm
Sammy Luo

Isn't he gn?
Franchi Majluf
11:05pm
Franchi Majluf

Andytsai?
Sammy Luo
11:05pm
Sammy Luo

Yeah

Did you not know?
Franchi Majluf
11:05pm
Franchi Majluf

Why would you say that?

How do you know?
Sammy Luo
11:05pm
Sammy Luo

He revealed to Amanda and me for no reason

It was silly
Franchi Majluf
11:06pm
Franchi Majluf

He didn't reveal to ksedlar.
Sammy Luo
11:06pm
Sammy Luo

I know

Alex did
Franchi Majluf
11:06pm
Franchi Majluf

Alex did what?
Sammy Luo
11:06pm
Sammy Luo

Revealed to Ksedlar
Franchi Majluf
11:06pm
Franchi Majluf

No, he didn't either
Sammy Luo
11:06pm
Sammy Luo

Oh word

Weird

Well, they claim to be

And want to be connected

But Alex is conscription bait
Franchi Majluf
11:07pm
Franchi Majluf

They missed their chance unsure emoticon yeah. Okay let me see what they say
Sammy Luo
11:08pm
Sammy Luo

About the shovel?

Do I go get the shovel?
Franchi Majluf
11:09pm
Franchi Majluf

If you can

Don't draw sketchiness to yourself

Also, I'm going to be busy at 11:30 so...
Sammy Luo
11:10pm
Sammy Luo

Ok
Sammy Luo
11:15pm
Sammy Luo

Also brainstorm more Lynch targets
Sammy Luo
11:26pm
Sammy Luo

Are you sure Isaac could not have done it?
Franchi Majluf
11:27pm
Franchi Majluf

Yes. Unless conscripted, which I doubt.
Sammy Luo
11:27pm
Sammy Luo

Ok

Still no shovel result
Franchi Majluf
11:30pm
Franchi Majluf

Network says lynch tsims still

Because of plant evidence
Sammy Luo
11:32pm
Sammy Luo

Ok

But that was a quick plant then
Franchi Majluf
11:33pm
Franchi Majluf

They probably did it before tsims posted he was mafia

(If guilty)
Sammy Luo
11:33pm
Sammy Luo

Ok

Should nastya still investigate tsims?
Franchi Majluf
11:34pm
Franchi Majluf

I'd say yes
Sammy Luo
11:34pm
Sammy Luo

Ok

As opposed to like Isaac?
Franchi Majluf
11:34pm
Franchi Majluf

Yes, def.

Or you want to rule out

Conscription?
Sammy Luo
11:34pm
Sammy Luo

Yeah
Franchi Majluf
11:34pm
Franchi Majluf

Er, sure
Sammy Luo
11:34pm
Sammy Luo

Idk
Franchi Majluf
11:35pm
Franchi Majluf

To convince town

Sure
Sammy Luo
11:35pm
Sammy Luo

She's leaning towards tsims

I'll let her pick
Franchi Majluf
11:36pm
Franchi Majluf

Yeah that is better

Oh don't tell her I trust isaac

Loke the network
Sammy Luo
11:36pm
Sammy Luo

Yeah

Also, who should I stalk?
Franchi Majluf
11:40pm
Franchi Majluf

Oh geez

Er

Tuan?

Who do you think?
Sammy Luo
11:41pm
Sammy Luo

No idea

You guys have all voted tsims, right?
Franchi Majluf
11:41pm
Franchi Majluf

I hope lol
Sammy Luo
11:44pm
Sammy Luo

I'll stalk csvoss

Wait help

Lucy says tsims killed lily

What should nastya do?

K she's checking Jakob
Sammy Luo
11:53pm
Sammy Luo

Were either lily or Jakob known to the network?
Franchi Majluf
11:56pm
Franchi Majluf

Lily
Sammy Luo
11:56pm
Sammy Luo

Lily was known?

Also should I shovel tsims or should nastya?

What was lily?

This is important!

And should be made public!
Franchi Majluf
12:00am
Franchi Majluf

Sorry, busy!
Sammy Luo
12:15am
Sammy Luo

?
Sammy Luo
12:29am
Sammy Luo

Ok I got the shovel. Who should I pass it to?
Sammy Luo
1:05am
Sammy Luo

are you free now?

can you take the shovel from me?

you should answer things so you don't look sketchy


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:11 am 
Title: [Popcorn] fmajluf7 is bad at keeping people's roles secret

We just had an in person conversation (from me giving her my shovel). This is what I've gathered:

achester - innocent
ajliu - stalker
Alex - GN?
andytsai - GN?
brunnerj -
csvoss - innocent
Daniel Grazian - stalker / mafia
fmajluf7 - GN
isaacg - innocent
jessk - innocent
jordanh - (mafia?)
ltchin - IC?
Lucy -
maxmurin - GI
Miranda Gavrin -
nastya -
nguyenin - GI
sammyluo - sammyluo
sashacf -

ijc
Josh Frisch
aok - SK
ksedlar - desperado
lilychen - IC
jakob - mafia (?) or GI
tsims - vigilante (?) or mafia

They have a forum!

I feel like it's pretty likely at least one of the ICs or GN pairs is fake (ltchin would be my first guess, followed by Alex/andy).
I'm not going to publicly announce the news about lilychen being IC until the rest of the network confirms to fmajluf7 that I should. Hopefully there's no security breach...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:12 am 
Lol sammyluo so OP, at this point the network might as well just add him in, he's got enough role info.

Sammy should maybe actually consider that it's not good for him to have this much info, since he could be conscripted later?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:36 am 
I hope Francesca at least realizes how much information she's leaking to Sammy...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:50 am 
Francesca does, and she's worried about it.

fmajluf7 wrote:
Also also, sammy noted pesto's "us"... he knows a lot. Sammy is figuring out all our identities. I trust him but am terrified. Thoughts?


I think what the GCSN wants to do is set up a "if Sammy is still alive by X day, lynch him" type of thing. Sammy is clearly being really active and getting a lot of info funneled through him, so it should be obvious that mafia want to conscript or kill him. Him not dying after a few days is thus sketchy.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:51 am 
Yeah, I guess my point is not that they should kill him if they think he's been conscripted, it's that they should kill him before he's conscripted so all this info doesnt leak.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:02 am 
Maybe. In general though people over-estimate the likelihood of a particular person getting conscripted, and I don't think it's worth killing Sammy now for the chance that conscription hasn't been used (it usually has been by this point) and that mafia want to use it on Sammy. Especially because Sammy has seemed pretty psychologically innocent and has been doing useful stuff. Given the fact that he seems innocent, they should use the metric of how much sketchiness him still being alive adds to him over time. As of now, I don't think it's THAT weird he's alive, given that he only started being the proxy yesterday, after the day's kill.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:09 pm 
Sammy again, wondering how right he is:
-------------------------

to fmajluf7 I wrote:
assuming the network is all legit, this game has, of 26 players:
3 starting mafia, 1 SK, 3-4 stalkers, 3 ICs, 6 GNs, 2-3 investigators, 2-3 GIs, 2 desperadoes, 1-2 priests, 1-2 vigs.
which is believable
minus jfrisch and ijc, who we just have no clue, the remaining roles are:
3 starting mafia, 1 SK, 3 stalkers, 3 ICs, 6 GNs, 2 investigators, 2 GIs, 2 desperadoes, 1 priest, 1 vig
or switch a vig and a GI


My first list should have been 3 stalkers, 3-4 ICs.

again I wrote:
OK, I've reduced to this tentative conclusion:
Assuming the network and Alex/andytsai are legit, the currently alive players should be:
2 starting mafia, 3 stalkers, 2 ICs, 6 GNs, 2 investigators, 2 GIs, 1 desperado, 1 priest

If this seems unreasonable, one of your GN pairs is probably fake.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:14 pm 
Answer: what the fuck sammy, how did you get all of that??? Did I miss something major?

You are EXACTLY RIGHT about roles once we remove jfrisch/ijc. Your currently alive players list is also spot on.

Also, nastya is claiming vigilante, so if you actually have a good reason for knowing there are no living vigilantes as opposed to just guessing, you could catch her for that.

--jamb


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:20 pm 
Sammyluo OP


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:50 pm 
Oh, I missed posting part of Sammyluo's chat with maxmurin yesterday (he sent it over facebook, which I didn't check until today):

Sammy Luo
5:29pm
Sammy Luo

hmm max, tricky situation
Max Murin
5:29pm
Max Murin

?
Sammy Luo
5:30pm
Sammy Luo

so, I have been made aware that Angela is in fact in existence
Max Murin
5:30pm
Max Murin

oh dear

what is this person doing
Sammy Luo
5:31pm
Sammy Luo

being inactive, or being mafia

I am not sure whether this person managed to become connected to the GCSN

and am not sure how to report this person to the GCSN without endangering them
Max Murin
5:33pm
Max Murin

you know of their existence separately from the GCSN? hmm

do you know the specific person? if you do, you can perhaps use their activity in other facets/whether they are new to judge how likely they are to simply be clueless

and not scummy
Sammy Luo
5:35pm
Sammy Luo

yes, I know
Max Murin
5:36pm
Max Murin

ok
Sammy Luo
5:36pm
Sammy Luo

I'm just not sure how to convey this info to GCSN

so they don't come to false conclusions about the rest of the stalkers
Max Murin
5:36pm
Max Murin

oh i see

wait what do you mean by false conclusions?
Sammy Luo
5:37pm
Sammy Luo

like, angela being alive/possibly real affects the probability that none of the other three stalkers are mafia
Max Murin
5:37pm
Max Murin

oh

i parsed that as "convey this to the GCSN in such a way that they don't come to false conclusions"
Sammy Luo
5:38pm
Sammy Luo

ah
Max Murin
5:39pm
Max Murin

brb
Sammy Luo
5:39pm
Sammy Luo

hmm, should I post on the GCSN communication thread saying "I have info I need to convey to GCSN before they answer my previous question, please pick a proxy earlyish and have them pm me"
Max Murin
5:40pm
Max Murin

brb parents calling
Sammy Luo
5:40pm
Sammy Luo

ok
Max Murin
5:40pm
Max Murin

sorry i already said brb and i forgot and it sounds like i'm being passive aggressive
Sammy Luo
5:40pm
Sammy Luo

haha no
Max Murin
5:58pm
Max Murin

sorry i'm being silly

alright hmm

what happens if two people contact you?

in that case
Sammy Luo
6:04pm
Sammy Luo

That'd be strange
Max Murin
6:04pm
Max Murin

hm

i guess this is a good way to communicate with the network, but only assuming that the GCSN is actually on top of things
Sammy Luo
6:06pm
Sammy Luo

Yeah
Max Murin
6:06pm
Max Murin

how reasonable is this?

one of the ICs need to see it. there are about 2 or 3 of those (maybe), and about 1/2-2/3 of game is on top of things, so this is about 75% to 96% chance of working?

that's incredibly rough estimates
Sammy Luo
6:08pm
Sammy Luo

Hmm ok

Worth
Max Murin
6:08pm
Max Murin

that seems good
Sammy Luo
6:08pm
Sammy Luo

I'll post that then.
Max Murin
6:09pm
Max Murin

plus potentially telling the mafia about an inactive stalker is the worst case, and it's not even that bad
Sammy Luo
6:09pm
Sammy Luo

Yeah, true
Max Murin
6:09pm
Max Murin

and in the case that Angela is mafia, they learn nothing by false-proxying to you

this is actually totally worth

should I send our conversation to ksedlar for graveyard posterity?
Sammy Luo
6:12pm
Sammy Luo

I already sent part of it tongue emoticon
Max Murin
6:12pm
Max Murin

nice le
Sammy Luo
6:12pm
Sammy Luo

Up to the complaints about too much frame

You can send the rest


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:07 pm 
Also, at this point I'm about ready to conclude that Sammy is just a magic all-knowing Oracle.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:08 pm 
Sammy now predicts that isaac was a hitman kill.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:35 pm 
I mean, if sammy already knows everything, then he knows all the mafia are being stalked, so of course it has to be a hitman kill :)

--jamb

(Btw I keep forgetting to sign stuff and having to go back and edit - if it's in GY and posted by lambhen it's probably me.)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:40 am 
Quote from a conversation Sammy and fmajluf7 had yesterday:

Francesca: WOW GENIUS INVESTIGATOR
I'd def kill my lover
They don't call me spider for no reason
I ate his heart in the process


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:02 am 
lambhen wrote:
Answer: what the fuck sammy, how did you get all of that??? Did I miss something major?

You are EXACTLY RIGHT about roles once we remove jfrisch/ijc. Your currently alive players list is also spot on.

Also, nastya is claiming vigilante, so if you actually have a good reason for knowing there are no living vigilantes as opposed to just guessing, you could catch her for that.

--jamb


I knew all the ICs, GNs, stalkers (modulo one of them being mafia), GIs, and tsims/jakob. That was everyone except 5 people (nastya, jordanh, brunnerj, sashacf, Miranda Gavrin). The exact correctness from then on is a bit coincidental. I expected most of the investigations to be legit, and I saw brunnerj and sashacf on the alibis sheet a lot so assumed they were the investigators for Lucy and Alex. Then someone claimed investigator to ltchin, which I assumed was a desperado, and there was that weird thing with csvoss that I assumed to be a priest. Then there's a mafia.

I think if I'd been added to the innocence den before being conscripted into the mafia den, I'd have noticed nastya's vig claim and thought to vig test her much sooner than achester suggested it.

Incidentally, mechanically speaking, I think there was nothing making me more sketchy than achester (besides the whole shovel thing that happened while I was town anyway). Neither of us made any kills. It was pure psychology and logic :D


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:11 pm 
Oh, here's one that you guys missed (because it was in the same PM as one of the fmajluf7 ones). Prepended some stuff from earlier days, too.

tsims and I wrote:
Taylor Sims

You should investigate jakob

His alibi is mildly sketchy
Sammy Luo
4/15, 11:50pm
Sammy Luo

Hmm, I'll think about it (assuming I can investigate today)

Where does he claim to have been?
Taylor Sims
4/15, 11:51pm
Taylor Sims

Andrea and ksedlar said he was around the kill site around the time of the party
Sammy Luo
4/15, 11:52pm
Sammy Luo

I saw him on floorpi around 10:58
Taylor Sims
4/15, 11:52pm
Taylor Sims

And I hadn't really seem him in between him getting there ~10 minutes ago and when he left my room for the second time
Sammy Luo
4/16, 12:26am
Sammy Luo

Was Jakob actually around the party for kill 2?
Taylor Sims
4/16, 12:33am
Taylor Sims

Yeah he's been here
April 16
Sammy Luo
4/16, 7:59pm
Sammy Luo

Are you messaging mafia? tongue emoticon
Taylor Sims
4/16, 8:00pm
Taylor Sims

lol no I'm playing a game cuz this meeting is mildly boring
Sammy Luo
4/16, 8:00pm
Sammy Luo

Whoops
Taylor Sims
4/16, 8:08pm
Taylor Sims

Jakob knows where in going, if I die it was him
April 16
Taylor Sims
4/16, 11:30pm
Taylor Sims

Are you coming?
Sammy Luo
4/16, 11:30pm
Sammy Luo

no, I decided not to. RIP too socially awkward
Taylor Sims
4/16, 11:31pm
Taylor Sims

frown emoticon

If you're not coming because mafia, that's a bad reason
Sammy Luo
4/16, 11:33pm
Sammy Luo

No, don't worry, it's not for mafia reasons. I guess I'm feeling not energetic enough to socialize, and also [REDACTED]
Taylor Sims
4/16, 11:33pm
Taylor Sims

Ah
Sammy Luo
4/16, 11:34pm
Sammy Luo

I think comfort with such things will come with time.
Taylor Sims
4/16, 11:34pm
Taylor Sims

Yeah, time solves many problem
Sammy Luo
4/16, 11:34pm
Sammy Luo

true like emoticon

now go and try not to get killed tongue emoticon
Sunday
Sammy Luo
4/17, 3:16pm
Sammy Luo

What do you mean with the Venn diagram thing?
Taylor Sims
4/17, 3:18pm
Taylor Sims

Like, investigator a chooses me, you, jakob, dgrazian, and cvoss, leaving out lucy

B chooses lucy, me, you, jakobz and cvoss, leaving out dgrazian if the first was positive

Idk maybe that's dumb?
Sammy Luo
4/17, 3:18pm
Sammy Luo

Isn't this equivalent to just investigating Lucy?
Taylor Sims
4/17, 3:18pm
Taylor Sims

I guess
Sammy Luo
4/17, 3:19pm
Sammy Luo

Like picking half the group seems more efficient
Taylor Sims
4/17, 3:19pm
Taylor Sims

We could also switch 2

And then we have a 50/50

Idk

Logic is hard
Sammy Luo
4/17, 3:19pm
Sammy Luo

Haha

Think of it as information theory?

We have a set of 6 that contains a positive
Taylor Sims
4/17, 3:20pm
Taylor Sims

Oh that makes it much better, thanks
Sammy Luo
4/17, 3:20pm
Sammy Luo
Sammy Luo
4/17, 3:21pm
Sammy Luo

We need just log_2 6 bits to find it

Wait I agree, math is hard

Also

How good are you at telling when Jakob is lying?
Taylor Sims
4/17, 3:25pm
Taylor Sims

I am unsure
Sammy Luo
4/17, 3:25pm
Sammy Luo

I used to be rather good at this but obviously it's not my job anymore :')

Ok, hmm

But he doesn't seem especially sketchy?
Taylor Sims
4/17, 3:26pm
Taylor Sims

Not especially

Id give a ~65% probability he's town
Sammy Luo
4/17, 3:28pm
Sammy Luo

Ok, so that means he's slightly more than twice as sketchy as average?
Taylor Sims
4/17, 3:28pm
Taylor Sims

No

Idk
Sammy Luo
4/17, 3:29pm
Sammy Luo

Haha rip
Taylor Sims
4/17, 3:29pm
Taylor Sims

What is the average

I guess its 4/27?

Or 4/25
Sammy Luo
4/17, 3:29pm
Sammy Luo

4/alive
Taylor Sims
4/17, 3:30pm
Taylor Sims

He would make a good conscript target, so slightly sketchier than average? But I don't think he's been that sketxhy
Sammy Luo
4/17, 3:30pm
Sammy Luo

Ok

Makes sense, thanks
Taylor Sims
4/17, 3:31pm
Taylor Sims

How sketchy do I seem? Lok

lol
Sammy Luo
4/17, 3:31pm
Sammy Luo

Uh

You seemed fine in person
Taylor Sims
4/17, 3:31pm
Taylor Sims

Lol ok
Sammy Luo
4/17, 3:31pm
Sammy Luo

But you sounded a bit anxious while talking about the info theory
Taylor Sims
4/17, 3:32pm
Taylor Sims

lol its too reminicient of Shannon entropy in 8.044

#triggered
Sammy Luo
4/17, 3:33pm
Sammy Luo

Ah I see I've *triggered* your trap card
Taylor Sims
4/17, 3:33pm
Taylor Sims

stahp

Sunday
Sammy Luo
4/17, 9:55pm
Sammy Luo

Tsims, you should defend yourself.
Taylor Sims
10:19pm
Taylor Sims

I mean, what can I do? At this point, I was near(ish) the site of the kill, there's a 1/3 chance of the group investigation having me be the killer

tbh the only thing I can really do is role reveal and hope someone investigates me as innocent before day end
Sammy Luo
10:20pm
Sammy Luo

Yeah
Taylor Sims
10:21pm
Taylor Sims

I mean, I'll role reveal to you if that'll make me feel better

s/me/you
Sammy Luo
10:22pm
Sammy Luo

Ok do it
Taylor Sims
10:23pm
Taylor Sims

I'm a vigilante
Sammy Luo
10:23pm
Sammy Luo

That's not very provably innocent...
Taylor Sims
10:24pm
Taylor Sims

Nope

But that's my role
Sammy Luo
10:24pm
Sammy Luo

Actually, if you made a kill today...
Taylor Sims
10:24pm
Taylor Sims

If all of the roles were probably innocent, what would be the point?

Also, have you noticed how jessk has been waaayyyy less active than normal?
Sammy Luo
10:29pm
Sammy Luo

You can prove your innocence by killing someone the network tells you to kill

Because scheme has to be someone who hasn't killed today
Taylor Sims
10:30pm
Taylor Sims

Ok

Won't this just get me killed tomorrow using set a trap?
Sammy Luo
10:30pm
Sammy Luo

That's ok

It's better than getting lynched
Taylor Sims
10:30pm
Taylor Sims

what does the gcn

Say
Sammy Luo
10:31pm
Sammy Luo

I'm waiting
Taylor Sims
10:32pm
Taylor Sims

Idk If I have a ton of time to like find people in random or go to ET so I hope they respond quickly
Taylor Sims
10:41pm
Taylor Sims

Anything?
Sammy Luo
10:42pm
Sammy Luo

Still discussing...
Taylor Sims
10:42pm
Taylor Sims

Ok

Not much time left
Sammy Luo
10:42pm
Sammy Luo

Uh so far they kind of want you to kill Jakob

Not decided
Taylor Sims
10:43pm
Taylor Sims

His body double is kmli, right?
Sammy Luo
10:43pm
Sammy Luo

Yeah
Taylor Sims
10:43pm
Taylor Sims

Ok lmk soon plz

I have a sleepover I'm late for
Sammy Luo
10:44pm
Sammy Luo

Sorry
Taylor Sims
10:50pm
Taylor Sims

Should I go to floorpi now, or?
Sammy Luo
10:50pm
Sammy Luo

Yes

Kill Jakob

He's in kitchen

Rip

Come
Sammy Luo
10:57pm
Sammy Luo

Tell us whether he was Mafia
Taylor Sims
10:58pm
Taylor Sims

God's haven't messaged me back
Sammy Luo
10:58pm
Sammy Luo

Ok

Have fun at your sleepover

Let town know when results appear
Taylor Sims
10:58pm
Taylor Sims

I'll probably still be somewhat active; I have my phone and sjit
Sammy Luo
10:59pm
Sammy Luo

Cool
Taylor Sims
10:59pm
Taylor Sims

yeah hopefully they'll post soon?
Sammy Luo
10:59pm
Sammy Luo

They did

Did they give an innocence result?
Taylor Sims
11:02pm
Taylor Sims

He was lol
Sammy Luo
11:03pm
Sammy Luo

He was what?
Taylor Sims
11:03pm
Taylor Sims

Mafoa
Sammy Luo
11:03pm
Sammy Luo

Wow
Taylor Sims
11:03pm
Taylor Sims

lol
Sammy Luo
11:03pm
Sammy Luo

Post to town
Taylor Sims
11:03pm
Taylor Sims

Thank you RNGsus

I did
Sammy Luo
11:04pm
Sammy Luo

Cool

I'm sorry, I still feel bad for this
Taylor Sims
11:05pm
Taylor Sims

lol
Sammy Luo
11:06pm
Sammy Luo

I know I couldn't make myself kill Jakob in person...
Taylor Sims
11:08pm
Taylor Sims

Oh I could
Sammy Luo
11:08pm
Sammy Luo

Well, you're a different person
Taylor Sims
11:08pm
Taylor Sims

true
Sammy Luo
11:08pm
Sammy Luo

Probably more suited for Jakob's personality, honestly tongue emoticon like emoticon

(Let me know if talking about such things feels awkward)
Taylor Sims
11:09pm
Taylor Sims

Nah it's chill

I also got a shovel
Sammy Luo
11:13pm
Sammy Luo

Me too

Let me do it
Taylor Sims
11:13pm
Taylor Sims

K
Sammy Luo
11:13pm
Sammy Luo

So we have independent confirmation
Taylor Sims
11:13pm
Taylor Sims

Should I give the shovel to someone else?
Sammy Luo
11:13pm
Sammy Luo

Do you have Ksedlar's shovel?

Um
Taylor Sims
11:13pm
Taylor Sims

So that it isn't his killer that shovels him?

That could be sketch

It's shovel 4
Sammy Luo
11:14pm
Sammy Luo

Yeah
Sammy Luo
11:38pm
Sammy Luo

You're probably still getting lynched. Any parting words?
Taylor Sims
11:43pm
Taylor Sims

I'm glad I killed a mafia
Sammy Luo
11:43pm
Sammy Luo
Sammy Luo
11:43pm
Sammy Luo

Your name will go down in history
Sammy Luo
11:58pm
Sammy Luo

Who do you think killed lily?

Best guess
Taylor Sims
11:59pm
Taylor Sims

Dgrazian

Lucy was pdrunk

But she could done it
Sammy Luo
11:59pm
Sammy Luo

Ok

Lucy was being stalked

Other possibilities?

Oops you should've posted on town square rather than telling me


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:07 pm 
Oh upon reflection I guess this is also relevant. I'm amused that I suspected csvoss as GN here but for completely wrong reasons, then asked for priest confirmation that jakob did not kill ijc (which would have implicated someone else, i.e. tsims or nastya):

sammyluo wrote:
Subject: Investigations

csvoss wrote:
I am proxying for Tellurium and Xenon.

Tellurium claims that ksedlar did not kill ijc.

Xenon claims that Jakob did not kill ijc.


Is this a gay knight investigation? I find it pretty unlikely that two investigators concurrently decided to proxy through you. Obviously you should not tell me right now if it is, but if so you (or the gay knight you're proxying for) should reveal at some point today before dying of heartbreak so we know these investigations are infallible and so that you can organize a trust network.
csvoss wrote:
This is my first game of this, so I'm kind of confused.

What is a gay knight investigation?

How do trust networks work?
sammyluo wrote:
No problem. When a gay knight's lover dies, they get to make 2 investigations on their lover's death (and these are infallible, unlike most investigations). The idea is that a dying gay knight can be treated as a trusted innocent person, and so if everyone who can prove their innocence mechanically reveals to this dying gay knight, a trust network can be set up consisting of these innocent people, without letting other people know who's in this network.

I only asked because I thought it was highly unusual for two different people to pick you as their proxy on the same day, and I would doubt that we have that many investigators.
csvoss wrote:
Ohhh, okay. I thought that you were implying some kind of chain by which I was a proxy for a gay knight and that gay knight couple had itself received two proxy requests (but there are many similar such trust constructions, so I wasn't sure which one).

I'll keep this game concept in mind, though.
sammyluo wrote:
Actually, could you check with your investigator whether they're actually a priest? If so, it'll be useful to know that jakob *actually* didn't make a kill on ijc (rather than being don or using manipulate the press to fool investigations)

(I'm thinking of this now because the number of investigators really doesn't make sense if you were proxying two separate people)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:04 pm 
Hmm, I think it would've been pretty worth it for priests to reveal to ksedlar. Not because they're provably innocent, but because their results are much more important than investigation results, and ksedlar could've set them up with one trusted proxy (who wouldn't need to disclose their identities to the rest of the network) (or maybe two in case one dies) so that this extra info would've been conveyed.

That said, maybe it's a flaw in the new roles that so many different roles are worth revealing to a trust network...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:23 pm 
If enough roles all reveal to ksedlar, ksedlar becomes a reasonable conscription target again.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:43 pm 
The problem with conscripting me was that I was known to be around two players until day end. Also I had all of a few minutes to do anything with the role information I got.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:29 am 
I mean, I could've when I went outside the room in the LARP to see where you'd gotten to.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:04 am 
I think that IF jakob hadn't been mafia, conscripting ksedlar would've been a good move. (Assuming someone could sneak into the LARP and do it without jakob/Miranda noticing.) She could've killed one of the people at the LARP (thus making the other look really bad) to extend day for an hour and thus have time to get all the info to mafia. (Actually, she could've extended it another two hours beyond that by trapping / slaughtering a couple people, though this would've made it really obvious she was conscripted.)


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