Live Action Mafia

A game of sneakiness and paranoia
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:00 pm 
Nobody fires at each other between 11pm and midnight so everyone can look at clues and talk to each other without stressing. After that, people make themselves generally killable, respond to knocks on doors (unless they're asleep or having sex or whatever), and respond to gchat queries of how to find them before end of day.

I honestly think this would be more fun for everyone since it's frustrating to solve Codenames clues but not be able to make kills, and we are all in the stressful part of the semester and can't afford to spend time running around looking for people who are hiding.

Similarly, if there's a particular time you DON'T want to be killed (e.g. you are watching a movie with friends and want to not pay attention to game for a few hours and not worry that this loses your shot), say so, and I and my team (and hopefully others) will respect it if it doesn't completely block us from firing at you for the entire day.

This is like, a unique opportunity to play a civil form of LAM where we can communicate with each other without outing ourselves as evil; and it's especially important because it's a hosing time and there's such a higher kill density. Feel free to post other terms that would make your mafia experience happier!

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:00 pm 
(In other news I literally can't sleep knowing there's a clue coming out soon... I wish I could make a reasonability truce with my brain...)

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:01 pm 
Seems good to me. Sorry about being excessively paranoid in the past few days.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:01 pm 
this is not a good post to make at 11:00 PM

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:03 pm 
I kinda agree, but I don't think it's reasonable to demand this right at day rollover when people might already have other plans.

I, for one, have already left ET for campus in order to avoid possible death.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:06 pm 
er yeah, sorry, I don't mean this to apply to tonight, just wanted to start discussion and figured while I'm not-sleeping I might as well be typing forum stuff

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:48 am 
Now that it isn't literally rollover time, let's discuss.

This seems 100% sensible and I'd appreciate if teams agree with it. I personally will follow this rule.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:02 pm 
++Jackie, I will definitely abide by this. Thank you for posting this!

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:36 pm 
I agree with this. If you want to kill me (since I'm in the walled garden of Sidney-Pacific most of today), message/email me and I'll come down to the publicly accessible lobby. I can even agree not to paranoia text/take game actions before coming down if you want.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:46 pm 
I'm going to declare the truce to be in effect tonight (23:00-24:00) and each night thereafter unless someone posts here (at least an hour in advance) saying they disagree with it. (Please do say if you're not planning to follow it. I think this truce would make game more fun for almost everyone.)

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:09 pm 
Jack just shot me, which is sad
I guess the truce isn't a thing ;;

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:13 pm 
Hmm is there any way to communally punish Jack? (Other than "this makes the game sadder for everyone including your teammates and no one will ever trust you in alliances again," which I'd thought was strong enough but evidently he doesn't?)

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:15 pm 
Also fwiw I still expect everyone else to abide by this (unless shooting on Jack) for the rest of this 23:00-24:00 period, since people might not have had the chance to read forums and realize hiding may still be necessary.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:56 pm 
Sorry ahkim, this never really seemed like an official thing to me. I think there's not much of a point to shifting game later by an hour, and I think there are real consequences to game if we do this that aren't necessarily fair across teams.

As one example, say Julian is green and has one word left to be shot, that hasn't been clued yet. Currently, if Julian wants to shoot before dying at day start, he can probably do this; he can just shoot some red word that's already been clued, while if blue wants to shoot him first they have to decipher whatever clue dgrazian has given. Julian might even have time to check whether he's been clued before shooting, because it's easier for him to check whether he's clued than it is for blue team to do so.

I like this fact about race conditions, that the person at 1 HP probably wins. If you give everyone an hour to think about clues first, the situation is instead basically symmetric, and might end up just being more frantic as Julian runs to make a kill while blue rushes at him. This doesn't seem like the kind of thing that reduces stress.

Please don't take this as "Jack defects in prisoner's dilemmas", I'm happy to cooperate in the future! Feel free to shoot me before midnight on future days, I never expected otherwise.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:58 pm 
I like the idea of this truce and am sad it is not being abided by but I also think you're being a bit forceful with it Jackie by saying "alright everyone agrees with this unless they post here"

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:14 am 
Jack's point makes sense to me. I do think that race conditions should be won by the people who have prepared what they wanted to do before day rolled over.

The truce should absolutely be opt-in, individually. It never was and never had been an official rule, and expecting players to abide by non-authoritative rules that make game less fun for them in the hope that the average fun increases for everyone else isn't really fair, even if meta-irrational. It could be made into a rule in successive runs of this game, but we are currently playing this iteration and jack didn't break any actual rules.

I'd still like the hour of lower-stress and panic that the truce provides. It'd be cool if all players /did/ opt-in to this, but I'm not in favor of any particular communal punishment of Jack specifically. Just vague sads in his direction.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:19 am 
Wait, so you think literally everyone should've had to post here saying "I AGREE" for me to assume truce was happening? If even one person doesn't explicitly post they agree, then no truce? Jack had like 48 hours when he could've posted that race condition argument; if he wasn't willing to abide by it he should've said so in advance for fairest gameplay. It seems pretty clear that he wanted to have ahkim think she was safe for that hour so he'd have a chance to shoot her instead of her hiding, and he's only posting this now retroactively to make himself look better. Without the truce we just have people holed up in their rooms while they solve clues, so it's not like the lack of a truce actually makes people easier to shoot, it just makes things more unpleasant for everyone.

An opt-in truce doesn't make any sense. Why would I throw away my ability to fire for an hour if other people can still fire on me? If even one person doesn't opt-in from the team that wants to kill me, then I still have to hide in my room if I want a chance to solve clues, so there's the same disutility. So please note that I have no intention of respecting the truce as long as Jack or anyone else who won't abide by it is alive.

Lol at "I'm happy to cooperate in the future!"... so says every defector.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:34 am 
pravinas wrote:
It could be made into a rule in successive runs of this game, but we are currently playing this iteration and jack didn't break any actual rules.

Obviously, Jack didn't break any actual rules; if he did, it would be Gods' job to redact his actions. That's like saying "defecting isn't against the rules in the prisoner's dilemma" - well, obviously. The entire point is that actual rules are enforced by Gods, and communal rules are enforced by players (via communal punishment if possible, and at least communal disapproval if not).

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:38 pm 
I would have been more happy to follow the truce if it had been explicitly agreed on by teams, like if Jackie had posted saying “green team agrees to follow this”, etc.. I think declaring this a “communal rule” just because you posted it and nobody posted disagreeing is a bit much. You are not god.

Nevertheless, at least a few people are a little sad, so I will follow the hour of waiting until I die. I hope there’s time for communal punishment before then!

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:03 pm 
so uh Jack is dead

Are we trucing tonight or not? A couple people seem to have said that I should assume not by default, which is sad, but unless I hear otherwise I'm assuming not.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:12 pm 
I'm trucing tonight. I can't speak for my team, but I will.

I'd be a little sad to be fired on, but I won't defect.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:33 pm 
tl;dr I have no intent to abide by this truce if it would benefit me to violate it, and I do not expect anyone to abide by it.

The idea of anyone not following the truce causes people in high danger to hide regardless of whether the truce is in place or not. Additionally, those who feel they need to hide at day-rollover are likely to still feel they need to hide at midnight. Thus, this truce at best delays hiding.

Also, it does not necessarily benefit everyone to give time to process hints, especially not a full hour. Maybe this was helpful earlier in game, when teams had little information, but teams now start day rollover having somewhat large amounts of information. Already having an idea of what to shoot at, wanting to shoot early before being killed, and fast hint processing speeds would all be reasons to shoot before midnight. Waiting increases the chance of being shot before making a shot, and midnight race conditions seem to me no less stressful or more beneficial than 11:00 race conditions.

I don't specifically plan to break the truce, but I also don't specifically plan to follow it, so I figured I would post this for reasonability's sake.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:07 pm 
I was not a fan of this truce (effectively pushing game back an hour, given that people go to sleep, seemed more unreasonable than any of the default race conditions) but ended up abiding by it anyway; this will happen again tonight, in that I will be at German House for the rest of the night, in my room with a closed door, and do not intend to let people into New House to kill me or to open my door if someone else lets them in. Sorry. If you want to kill me, you can gchat me in the morning or find me in one of my classes.

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